New Pacman hyperventilating?

[Maharg]

Hi guys. As some of you know I just purchased a green fantasy pac. I believe she is under optimal conditions. Eco earth with a very small amount of moss mixed in. My room temperature is around 70 degreees and I have a medium heat pad on the side of the tank which she CHOOSES to cuddle up right next to. The humidity is around 85. I just noticed she is shaking quite significantly. When I looked closely I realised its because she is breathing very heavy. I turned the pad off and it may be subsiding. Is this an usual sign of anything in paricular? Too hot perhaps? Stress? Is this ever normal?

[Maharg]

Additional information:

The tabk is quite small. A 5 gallon maybe. I have 3 quarters of the top covered in saran to keep himidity in. Calgary is very dry. Maybe 40% humidity in my house on average. Can the heat pad be super heating the tank cause of the saran wrap? I turned the pad off and the breathing has already returned to normal within 10 minutes. Whats strange is she chooses to hang out right up next to the heat pad. And id think if she was to hot she would burrow far down. But shes only burrowed in slightly. Half her body is above ground.



The heat pad is directly behind her. It goes from the right side to the water dish.

[Sunshine]

Can you try to get the heat up a little and see if that helps?

[Sunshine]

Is that moss in the terrarium? If so it should be removed or it could cause impaction unless you are tong feeding. From what I have learned on here night time temps should be between 75-78 and daytime temps should be between 80-85. Also try covering 3 sides of the enclosure with some kind of background to help him feel more secure. Keep me posted. I am not an expert but I will try to help as best I can!

[Maharg]

Thank you for the help. I will remove the moss altho it is very minimal and strictly to allow for slightly higher humidity. As far as turning the temp up, I believe if anything it may be to warm. As soon and I unplugged the heat mat she emmediately began breathing normally again.

[Wizzlewuzzle]

Do you have a thermometer/temp gauge of some sort in the tank? If yes, what temp is it reading?

If you hadn't said that the frog stopped hyperventilating when you turned off the mat, I would have guessed general stress/anxiety and recommended covering 3 sides of the tank and maybe adding in something for your frog to hide under (like one of those half-log things). Now those are still good suggestions, but from the details you gave, it does sound like there's a connection between the heat mat and the hyperventilating.

[Sunshine]

I am glad she is doing better! Hopefully it was just the temperature making her hyperventilate. If you want to leave the moss in there you can try tong feeding her or putting her in another container to eat so she doesn't accidentally ingest some of the moss. This tends to stress the frogs though from what I have learned and it might be difficult to get her to feed from tongs if she is not used to it. Tong feeding is a good way to feed if you can get her used to it. This way you can be sure she is not ingesting substrate and you can monitor her eating to make sure there are no changes.

[Maharg]

Do you have a thermometer/temp gauge of some sort in the tank? If yes, what temp is it reading?

If you hadn't said that the frog stopped hyperventilating when you turned off the mat, I would have guessed general stress/anxiety and recommended covering 3 sides of the tank and maybe adding in something for your frog to hide under (like one of those half-log things). Now those are still good suggestions, but from the details you gave, it does sound like there's a connection between the heat mat and the hyperventilating.

Tomorrow I will do all the recommended steps and turn the mat back on. This should narrow down the possibilities. I do have a temp gauge but it keeps falling. How much will a standard size heat mat raise the temp in a 5 gallon? In my 20 gallon it did virtually nothing

[Sunshine]

A temp gauge is definitely important so maybe you can get a new one tomorrow? I'm not sure about the heat mat, sorry. I have a small exo-terra heat mat on the side of my pacman terrarium but I don't really notice a difference when it is on or off. I'm not sure if it is different with the different brands though.

[Maharg]

I will definitely be purchasing a temp gauge tomorrow.
Does anybody have an opinion on frogs intelligence when it comes to escaping heat? Its odd that the issue does appear to be overheating as the breathing returns to normal after the heat pad is turned off.
Some say never to put the pad below the tank as the frog will burrow down to it, dehydrate and die. Others say thats nonsense and if a frog is uncomfortable, the frog will make the logical decision and move.

[Sunshine]

Not sure about the intelligence but they burrow into the substrate when they want to cool off. Putting the heat pad on the bottom will keep them from being able to cool off and I have heard they can get burned by it if it is on the bottom. Hopefully Grif will have some answers tomorrow. He knows a lot about pacmans! Your frog is adorable btw!!

[GrifTheGreat]

Everyone has specified what you need so I will address the heat pad.

Any UTH should be appropriately sized for the enclosure you're using. If you're going to switch to a 5 gallon then you'll want a heat pad for a 5 gallon tank. Zoo Med labels their packaging with the size tank each size pad is designed for so I would look into their UTH, but still be sure to place it on the side.

They're smart in terms of thermoregulating their body, but if you place a UTH on the bottom of the tank and the frog becomes too warm or its favorite burrowing spot happens to be in that area the frog may be burned on the glass or overheat themselves due to these frogs burrowing to thermoregulate and the frog will not understand why it isn't cooling down when burrowed. Basically it confuses the frog and this can result badly.

Your frog isn't hyperventilating, its just scared. Also ambient air temp should be 80° during the day not just the warm side, but the air temp of the entire enclosure as well as the ambient air humidity needing to be 80%. Would should be moist or heavily damp, but not mud.

[Maharg]

Everyone has specified what you need so I will address the heat pad.

Any UTH should be appropriately sized for the enclosure you're using. If you're going to switch to a 5 gallon then you'll want a heat pad for a 5 gallon tank. Zoo Med labels their packaging with the size tank each size pad is designed for so I would look into their UTH, but still be sure to place it on the side.

They're smart in terms of thermoregulating their body, but if you place a UTH on the bottom of the tank and the frog becomes too warm or its favorite burrowing spot happens to be in that area the frog may be burned on the glass or overheat themselves due to these frogs burrowing to thermoregulate and the frog will not understand why it isn't cooling down when burrowed. Basically it confuses the frog and this can result badly.

Your frog isn't hyperventilating, its just scared. Also ambient air temp should be 80° during the day not just the warm side, but the air temp of the entire enclosure as well as the ambient air humidity needing to be 80%. Would should be moist or heavily damp, but not mud.

Thanks Griff. I will properly address these issues.
I also have one mkre quick question instead of posting a new thread. Im worried about the risk of impaction of a small piece of paper towel. I laid a feeder fish on some paper towel. The fish kept squirming out of the tongs, and I didnt want to lay the fish directly on the substrate for obvious cleaning issues. she struck right away but her sticky tounge took a small, slightly below a square inch chunk with it. Whats the next step? Wait and pray?

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks Griff. I will properly address these issues.
I also have one mkre quick question instead of posting a new thread. Im worried about the risk of impaction of a small piece of paper towel. I laid a feeder fish on some paper towel. The fish kept squirming out of the tongs, and I didnt want to lay the fish directly on the substrate for obvious cleaning issues. she struck right away but her sticky tounge took a small, slightly below a square inch chunk with it. Whats the next step? Wait and pray?

Keep an eye on the frog. Most of the time paper towel pieces are passed without issue. When it appears the frog is nearing a bowel movement make a de-chlorinated soak and place 3 drops of honey in the bath. The water should be just warm to the touch(78°) and no deeper than up to the frogs chin. Soak for 15 minutes and as the water cools have another de-chlorinated soak ready of the same depth and temp, but just plain. Soak for another 15 minutes or less if the frog defecates sooner. If the frog doesn't have a bowel movement in the amount of time it took for both baths just fill her water dish with Luke warm de-chlorinated water and return her home , but set her in her water dish.

Keep me posted.

[Maharg]

Keep an eye on the frog. Most of the time paper towel pieces are passed without issue. When it appears the frog is nearing a bowel movement make a de-chlorinated soak and place 3 drops of honey in the bath. The water should be just warm to the touch(78°) and no deeper than up to the frogs chin. Soak for 15 minutes and as the water cools have another de-chlorinated soak ready of the same depth and temp, but just plain. Soak for another 15 minutes or less if the frog defecates sooner. If the frog doesn't have a bowel movement in the amount of time it took for both baths just fill her water dish with Luke warm de-chlorinated water and return her home , but set her in her water dish.

Keep me posted.

Thanks Griff and the everybody who provided me tips. Good to know we have a highly informed community to help us out when needed.

[Lija]

you got some excellent advice here.
do you want to add something to the tank, may be some wood or plant to provide a hide of some sorts and cover 3 sides of a tank with something. it will help him feel more safe and less scared.

P.S. I think it is really a good thing I haven't seen this frog at J&J :lol:

[Maharg]

you got some excellent advice here.
do you want to add something to the tank, may be some wood or plant to provide a hide of some sorts and cover 3 sides of a tank with something. it will help him feel more safe and less scared.

P.S. I think it is really a good thing I haven't seen this frog at J&J :lol:

Thats exactly what im going to do. Lol im so scatterbrained tho that ill go to a pet store with all these things in mind and get home and be like "oh yea I forgot decor and something to cover the sides"
Today I got back with food, an extra thermometer and spring water but forgot all the other important stuff.

Yea I loved this Pacman from the moment I saw her. Once she settles in some more ill be sure to post some better pics.