Uh oh...

[Silverspring47]

Hey guys!
ok...I'm BRAND NEW at having a reptile of any kind... I got my pacman frog, Prince Eric, a few weeks ago. When I bought him, I asked the seller at the Reptile Store how to take care of him. I have a feeling.....he had absolutely NO idea what he was talking about!!!!!!
my bf got one too at the same time. He feeds his daily, and says he eats 5 a day. Mine would only eat every few days. He found his on his back, the reptile store said it could be stress, or unhappy in his enclosure for different reasons, etc. mine has been fine, but recently stopped eating. I figured he wasn't hungry, or maybe about to hibernate....SO....
first ill explain his enclosure (which after further research, think they screwed me on!) ... He's about an inch. Bright green! And beautiful. He didn't eat at first, so I'd bring crickets to his nose and get him to eat, but then he started catching em. His enclosure is the small plastic box they had him in at the store... Literally, 6x6x6.... I have no idea what kind of substrate he has, bc the package is clear with no labeling...it's what they gave me. It's light brown and....kinda looks like furry worms. He buries himself in it just fine.
i was told not to bother dusting the crickets, but after I bought a chameleon, I got calcium stuff for him, and read tht it can be good for frogs, so I used it a bit.
The reptile guy said to mist him once a week...but that didn't sound right. My chameleon gets misted at least 3 times a day...so, I misted my frog more often than recommended. When I did this, he moved around more.
until today!
I got home from work, and he's limp! I can't see him breathing at all! I read online that it could be bc he is breathing thru his skin, going into hibernation, and if you warm him up he'll "wake up"....well since he wasn't eating, this made sense. He wasn't buried tho...
well I took him out, to see if I could see him breathe, and he looked...dirty. He had a film on him, so I cleaned him up, before realizing it may have been for hibernating! ****! It was filmy...so I dunno! Anyway, I googled everything, and saw a YouTube frog shedding his skin, and it looked similar....my froggy's was just thinner. SO, as I said, I read that maybe he was cold...after all, I wasn't told to give him heat! The ppl at the damn store said he would be fine in that home!! I left the little fluorescent light on....*gulp* all the time. They didn't tell me not to! I was told not to touch him, not to move him, and not to change n e thing if I could help it....so ya, now I read that is wrong, and that he needs heat. Sooooo...I put the chameleon light on, and left him under it for a while. (Not RIGHT under it)...I checked on him, and the guy was brown! All except his head!!! He's skin was harder....I'd given it only 20 mins or so, but now I'm terrified that I cooked him!!! I just feel horrible! I have no idea what I'm doing! I NOW feel that his home was too small, he had no water dish, just what I misted him with (which I was told to do once a week), and crickets (that he didn't eat much of) so I misted him, and he softened up again......

i really can't tell if he is hibernating or ...cooked. I REALLY wish the guys at the reptile store had SOME idea of what they were talking about!!! (I realized they were full of **** when I got my chameleon off kijiji, and researched a new cage for him, and discovered he MUST live in an open cage, NOT glass....the reptile store had recommended a really nice $300 glass terrarium......)

So ya, I'm getting the idea that they have NO CLUE what they r talking about! If Prince Eric has passed, I'll be heartbroken! I would want another one, and would get him a better terrarium etc, if he's not dead, I'll buy him a new one also! (We were told n e thing bigger than what he has will make it difficult if not impossible to hunt. But everyone online has one bigger than mine!) I also wanna know for my bfs frog!

I know it sounds so horrible...and I feel absolutely TERRIBLE so please don't tell me I am...I already feel it. Just tell me what I can do, and help me in understanding what he is doing! Limp, darkened hardened skin (softens with water), not moving AT ALL...no breathing, no eye movement, no nothing!!!! I also found a book I'm gonna buy about pacman's...so I don't have to listen to stupid reptile store guys n e more! (They also told me buying a chameleon would be $3-400 total....chameleon was $150 and tank he showed me was $300....it didn't include 2 lights, or anything for the chameleon to climb on...just an empty tank....and as I said, the WRONG tank!! FFS) anyway...

....is my prince Eric dead???? How long should I wait, or what do I look for to be SURE he's not hibernating??? Pease help!! This princess is sad, mad, n confused!!!

[Heatheranne]

Okay, Silverspring....take a big deep breath.

The first thing you need to do is to see if he is breathing. He needs hydration. Fill a small water bowl with dechlorinated water to about 1/3" deep and let him sit in it. The water needs to be luke warm. Not cold and not hot. 80 degrees is perfect if you can test it with a thermometer.

He needs calcium. If he will eat, sprinkle 2 or 3 crickets lightly with amphibian or reptile calcium with vitamin D 3 powder. If he is too weak to eat, then get some Repta-aid/Reptaboost. Put a half scoop,using the scoop provided in the kit, into the water you soak him in. Let him soak for 30 minutes. Normally a 15 minute soak is good, but your frog is severely dehydrated. The layer on him is his she'd. He is not shedding it off because the skin is too dry and he is weak.

He should have a thermometer gauge and a hygrometer (humidity gauge). These are a must. His home should be misted with dechlorinated tap water or spring water. Not bottled drinking water. This is usually done 2 times per day. The goal is to keep his home at 80% humidity.

His home should be warmed to 80 degrees F. If his home is plastic, you'll have to heat from above. I would actually recommend getting a 10 gallon fish tank with a metal screen lid. I would purchase a dome lamp with a dimmer and a 40 or 50 watt heat bulb, no higher. Get the lamp with the dimmer so you can adjust the heat as needed. If you have extra money, I would also purchase a UTH (Under The Tank) heater. It looks like a heat pad. Only use it on a side of the tank, never the bottom. Pacman frogs live to bury in their substrate and will burn themselves. Putting it on one end is best, preferably towards the back. If you can afford any tank you want, I have found the exo terra and Zilla tanks with the front doors to work best for keeping moisture in, but, of course, a cheaper 10 gallon aquarium works just fine.

Adding more in just a few minutes. Getting my daughter ready for school.

[Heatheranne]

This is a common problem encountered by lack of proper husbandry education. The best you can do now is correct the situation and hope he pulls through. It is good to read up on pets before you purchase them. Since we are already here with a dilemma, let's correct the problems and move forward. Learn from your mistakes. And know that most pet stores do not give you proper care advice when it comes to amphibians. You are lucky to have found this forum. Read a bunch of articles in the pacman section here. Here is a link to the Pacman care guide here. It is accurate.

http://www.frogforum.net/content/pac...-breeding-170/

[Heatheranne]

The safest substrate is Eco earth coco fiber (not the husk). Expand and moisten it in dechlorinated water or spring water. Change his substrate ever 4 to 6 weeks. Remove any feces as soon as you see it. Also, change his water bowl water daily.

They stress easily. To help reduce stress, get him something to hide under. A plant or log hollow works well. They have them at the pet store. Another thing to do is to cover the back and 2 sides of his tank with a medium or dark background. Outdoor colors work best. You can do this in several ways.

Lighting...they need a 12 hour day light cycle. This means 12 hours of night, 12 hours of day. They do not like bright light. They are nocturnal, so they must have 12 hours of dark. Very important. A simple low watt bulb can be used. You do not need anything fancy.

Oh, I forgot to tell you, you'll need an amphibian multivitamin powder. Lightly dust his food one day a week with the vitamin. When your frog is healthy again, lightly dust his food every other day with the calcium with vitamin D powder. Do not feed him mealworms, they cause constipation. The best staple foods are cut up earth worms or night crawlers, crickets, and roaches. Their food should be no larger than the width between his eyes. Feed him as much as he wants in 15 minutes daily. Be sure the worms have no dyes or scents added to them.

[Namio]

I hope the frog is still alive.
But, the first step is to determine if it's still alive. This can be trickier than you would think.

Because when stressed by consistent low temperature and desiccation, they can make layers of cocoon around them to cope with harsh conditions and prevent waterloss by nearly 100%, and hence the "film" that you had found. Cocoon forming does not happen overnight, it may take several weeks because they build it layer by layer. When sealed in cocoon, these frogs won't be able to move and looks mummified and "dead."

This pic is a cocoon formed by an unrelated frog. So it may not look like this in pacman frogs.


From your description that the frog skin is hard (can be soften by water) may potentially that it's in the process of cocoon forming, so do exactly what Heather said to soak the frog in shallow (chin-high), lukewarm, and dechlorinated water. If it's in cocoon-building phase the moisture will signal the frog to act and look normal again.

If it's not making cocoon and the skin look somewhat normal, then you can simply flip the frog on its back to see if it would struggle to re-orient itself.

By the way, the "brown furry worm" you got from the pet store is probably a type of common terrarium moss called sphagnum moss.

Keep us posted.

[Silverspring47]

He looks dead as a door nail! He is ...well, he looks like plastic. Very dark. I didn't see him breathing last night ....
im gonna go to the reptile store and ***** hard core!! I'm also going to advise all of this to my bf so he can have better luck with his I'm so pissed!!! They didn't tell me ANY of that stuff!!!! ��

[Namio]

He looks dead as a door nail! He is ...well, he looks like plastic. Very dark. I didn't see him breathing last night ....
im gonna go to the reptile store and ***** hard core!! I'm also going to advise all of this to my bf so he can have better luck with his I'm so pissed!!! They didn't tell me ANY of that stuff!!!! ��

Did you have a chance to soak it in water?

[Silverspring47]

no.... he hasn't moved since last night. he is all flat. and dark. and ...ya... not looking good. I'll post a pic.

[Ra]

no.... he hasn't moved since last night. he is all flat. and dark. and ...ya... not looking good. I'll post a pic.

Yeah I'd say that frog is dead, and judging by how dry that moss is, I'd say he was dessicated. Looks like the dry moss sucked moisture right out of it.

[Silverspring47]

i changed the moss last night, when I believed he was already dead... I was told to keep it about that moist. EVERYTHING they told us has been wrong!!! You'd think you could trust the Reptile Store to give you proper advice on how to take care of your pet! They told us anything bigger, tank wise, would cause him to starve bc he wouldn't be able to get his food b/c he'll just sit n wait for it to come to him. No water dish needed, just mist him once a week... BS!! Luckily I can help save my BF's frog... Should see the money we spend at that place too!!! He spent about $1500 in a matter of days just buying stuff... I was lucky I didn't decide to purchase my Chameleon from them, or else he too would be in the wrong tank, getting a bacterial infection, and dying!!! FFS! I've never been so furious in my life!!! Poor little guy! I woulda bought him all the right stuff and done everything he needed to live as a happy pacman! I loved having him and couldn't wait for him to get big n strong! I resisted picking him up, as much as I wanted to, b/c I know you shouldn't handle them.... I really did try

[Heatheranne]

Oh gosh! That just breaks my heart . Try soaking him and see if he moves at all. It appears as though he is dead, but you should see if he moves at all. His limbs are all dehydrated and atrophied .

[Silverspring47]

I know! I'm furious!!!! I was SO excited to get him, as I've never had a frog before...When I went with my bf to buy him, we asked how to care for him. He said he can stay in his little plastic cube for "a few years", and I only had to mist him once a week, and give him 3 crickets every 2-3 days... Now I find out that none of this is right and they have no idea what they are talking about! Shouldn't be allowed to sell reptiles! Gonna soak him now, tho I really don't think it'll help. When I took him out last night he didn't move, even when I flipped him onto his back...

[Silverspring47]

He just floats

[Ra]

How many watt bulb was the chameleon light?

[Silverspring47]

Thanks guys!!
Ya, he was for sure dead before I tried to warm him up. My bf's is fat n healthier than mine. (Obviously.....since mine went to froggie heaven)...
They have an albino, same lights as what mine was under....I HEARD that they killed feeder animals in appropriately in front of ppl. My cousin told me this, and said that she got into a fight with em over how to care for a fire belly! I trusted their opinion Bc their site discussed all the reptiles they've taken care of and for how many years....ugh! I did read stuff online, but when I got him, I figured it best to trust them....cuz otherwise it's like going to the dr, but diagnosing urself on webMD ya know??? And I've read a LOT of contradicting stuff.
I got a reply saying how a glass enclosure is better for a chameleon (BS) and how u do only mist a pacman once or twice a week! Otherwise bacteria builds. I don't think so! Keep the cage clean and most him often, a they come from a rainy environment!!
N e way....I'll go to a differen store to buy pets! I would like another pacman, a red eyed tree frog, and MAYBE a toad....may wait until my guinea pig passes before I get a toad (as I'm running outta room!) haha and YES, lesson learned!! Research to the max!!! See, any time Ive gotten a furry pet, I listen to sales person, read a little, and do all that and they live forever! I figured after all the animals I've raised successfully, I could handle a wee frog
Thank u all so much for ur support!!! Honestly, I'd gone to the store twice Bc he didn't seem to eat much....I knew he wasn't right!! But they kept telling me to let him get used to his environment.

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks guys!!
Ya, he was for sure dead before I tried to warm him up. My bf's is fat n healthier than mine. (Obviously.....since mine went to froggie heaven)...
They have an albino, same lights as what mine was under....I HEARD that they killed feeder animals in appropriately in front of ppl. My cousin told me this, and said that she got into a fight with em over how to care for a fire belly! I trusted their opinion Bc their site discussed all the reptiles they've taken care of and for how many years....ugh! I did read stuff online, but when I got him, I figured it best to trust them....cuz otherwise it's like going to the dr, but diagnosing urself on webMD ya know??? And I've read a LOT of contradicting stuff.
I got a reply saying how a glass enclosure is better for a chameleon (BS) and how u do only mist a pacman once or twice a week! Otherwise bacteria builds. I don't think so! Keep the cage clean and most him often, a they come from a rainy environment!!
N e way....I'll go to a differen store to buy pets! I would like another pacman, a red eyed tree frog, and MAYBE a toad....may wait until my guinea pig passes before I get a toad (as I'm running outta room!) haha and YES, lesson learned!! Research to the max!!! See, any time Ive gotten a furry pet, I listen to sales person, read a little, and do all that and they live forever! I figured after all the animals I've raised successfully, I could handle a wee frog
Thank u all so much for ur support!!! Honestly, I'd gone to the store twice Bc he didn't seem to eat much....I knew he wasn't right!! But they kept telling me to let him get used to his environment.

The Albino is in danger of receiving burns and going blind under standard lighting. They cannot have bright lights of any kind. You can only use Infrared bulbs and moonlight bulbs. Those people know nothing.

[Silverspring47]

I KNOW!!!! Thank you!!!! Even I knew that!! Nope!!! They have a regular light! I dunno exactly what kind of light it is...it attaches to the box, and then has a bendy white wire, and three little white lights. I saw that today n was like W-T-F!?! I'll be going to another store from now on!!!!! We only have 3 stores that are good for reptiles etc here, and one is Really far from me

[Silverspring47]

AND they have a tomato frog and another kind in the same cube...clearly too big for the cube...when we bought the pacman's, they said that they needed to move those two to a bigger enclosure Bc they were getting too big! WTF!?! poor froggy's!!

[DVirginiana]

If you're planning on getting a new frog, I'd recommend going to a show or ordering one from a breeder. Another problem with many stores is even if you know how to care for the animal once you get home poor care at the pet store (plus the fact that many will try to sell animals they know are ill) will leave you with an unhealthy animal.