Please help - terrible RETF accident!!!

[Bolisnide]

Bolisnide,
GrifTheGreat is really 'GrifTheGreat'
You got it right away!
What else ( topical medication ) do you have on hand besides neosporin?

I would wait until you hear from Dr Frye about anything near the eye.
The saline is different compared to say............sterile water.
And there could be preservatives in some products that may sting or irritate.

Extra.........clean........... soaks for him?
I'm sure you know to keep the soaking dishes as spotless as possible !
Clean often with the hottest water possible and lots of friction when cleaning and drying.
Do you have any Metronidazole? You could make a VERY diluted solution to clean the soaking dishes with.
Lynn

Thank you Lynn~
yes, very clean water dish.
other products on hand:
rubbing alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, hibiclens (chlorine gluconate solution 4.0%).. none of these i can use.
maybe I can use the hibiclens to wash the water dish?
Can I get metronidazole via pet meds? I'll check.
Emailing dr. frye now that I have moment.
Here is a current picture of my frog right after shedding tonight. she looks better?

[NatureLady]

I am of no help, but I just wanted to remind you that accidents happen and be easy on yourself! Hugs for you and hope your baby gets better soon! I would say that if the eye it's self is ok, then cleanliness is the best!

[Bolisnide]

I am of no help, but I just wanted to remind you that accidents happen and be easy on yourself! Hugs for you and hope your baby gets better soon! I would say that if the eye it's self is ok, then cleanliness is the best!

Thanks, hon! I know accidents happen, but I still feel awful. I'll feel so much better when she gets better.
I think you're right, her eyeball is fine, so she is probably just really bruised? if I keep things as clean as possible, she definitely has a better chance of avoiding infection.

[Heatheranne]

Hi Bolisnide,

I'm sorry I missed this post. I didn't read many posts at all yesterday.

I would place your baby in a hospital tank. Use only paper towel substrate and change it daily. Continue to change soaking water daily. You may want to boil your soak dish to kill any unseen bacteria or fungus. Mist as usual. Be sure to cover 3 sides of tank to avoid further stress. Feed as usual. Apply the original brand neosporin to all discolored skin areas everyday with a fresh Qtip, before misting. I actually boiled my dechlorinated water in advance, allowed to cool, and then used it for the water bowl and for misting. I also sprayed down the tank and dried it with paper towel before placing new, every night.

The discolorations will slough off as he sheds. Because they aren't deep wounds they will likely fade, shrink in size, and new skin will fill in. I am guessing you will start seeing a difference after about 2 to 3 sheds. It make take some time. Once the outer skin layer heals over he can be placed back in his normal home. Monitoring the color of the skin is important to know if it's healing without infection. Keep us posted. I've healed 6 retf's from poor care and wounds and have seen the healing phases of bacterial and fungus infections.

For his eye, use either 0.45% sterile saline irrigation, or dilute 0.9% sterile saline with boiled dechlor water to a 50/50 ratio. A standard bottle of sterile saline solution is the 0.9% solution. You need it be half of the strength of salt content for him.

You can look for sterile saline eye drops with absolutely no additives, dyes, or chemicals. It has to be strictly only sterile saline. It will likely be either the 0.45% or 0.9% solution. Again, it has to be only 0.45% or less (the 0.45% or more, dilute). Gently irrigate his eye daily. If the eye becomes cloudy, discolored, swollen, starts producing drainage, or he seems to be having difficulty with sight or eye muscle control, than a prescription medication is needed.

On a good note, my retf has scratched herself on her vine somehow in the past and all I did was neosporin daily. It faded and completely healed without even a scar.

It is key to monitor the skin and also their responses and how they act each day. If they eat normal, pee/poop normal, wake/sleep normal and the wound fades with no worsening, you're in good shape.

Keep us posted. Forgive yourself, we are all human .

[Bolisnide]

Thank you Heather! This is very helpful, and the fact you have successfully healed RETF in the past, is very encouraging.
I'll resource the saline you described and dilute as appropriate while I wait to receive the meds from Dr. Frye.
My frog (still unnamed) is solo in her tank. Would you still advise a hospital tank? Her substrate is paper towels which I have been changing daily, and I clean her dish daily as well.

Just thought I'd post what Dr. Frye emailed me, for anyone who may need the information in the future.

Dr Frye:
"I'd recommend using Silversulfadiazene lotion on all the wounds on the
body, and NeoPolyDex drops on the eye itself and the wound so close to the
eye.

Meds-

As a first aid kit, I strongly recommend having a few drugs on hand at all
times. That way when a medical problem arises, you just need to contact
me, and I can steer you down the right path.

Metronidizole is an antibacterial, antiprotozoal, and APPETITE
STIMULANT. It is $30 per 100 mLs.

* **Silversulfadiazene is a topical antibiotic and antifungal
that promotes healing while discouraging scarring. It should be used on
ALL skin lesions and costs $34 per ounce.*

Baytril is a strong systemic antibiotic that needs to be mixed
carefully. It costs $24 per ounce and is mixed according to the size of
the frog treated. Only a few drops are used daily.

Panacur is a powdered dewormer. It is very safe and easy to
use and costs $14 per spoonful.

Shipping costs $11 for Priority on any order that includes one
of the liquid medications. If you purchase Panacur alone, shipping costs
$2. I can not ship medications outside of the United States."

He is such a great resource for those who own frogs...

Just an update on my frog:
the accident took place on Monday morning, and already her wounds look a lot better. Here eye is still about the same, but as soon as I receive the eye drops, I'm sure she'll be on the mend for sure.

Thank you everyone for your help!!!
xoxoxo

[Heatheranne]

Awesome! SSD cream works great. I used it on my recently healed babies. When you get the eye drops he recommends you no longer need the saline drops. He is the herp vet I use too bc their are no knowledgeable ones near me.

If his tank is able to be kept really clean and you use paper towels, it should be fine.

How is he doing today? Has the neosporin changed his wounds at all?

[Bolisnide]

Awesome! SSD cream works great. I used it on my recently healed babies. When you get the eye drops he recommends you no longer need the saline drops. He is the herp vet I use too bc their are no knowledgeable ones near me.

If his tank is able to be kept really clean and you use paper towels, it should be fine.

How is he doing today? Has the neosporin changed his wounds at all?

The wounds on her body are significantly improved. They have shrunk in size by about 1/3 and don't seem as blue/bruised. She has shed every night since the accident? I never noticed her shedding so frequently, but I am paying much more attention now, so perhaps it's normal to shed daily? Her appetite has diminished slightly. She has gone from anywhere from 0-6 crickets/night to about 0-3/night (she ate zero crickets last night, 3 the night before, 2 the night of her accident, and unknown tonight). Her eye is pretty much the same as in the first photo I posted. No improvement on her eye, but not draining or changing in color in any way. The eye wash I had on hand was simply sterile saline in which I diluted 1:1 with boiled, treated water. She did not like it dropped on/in her eye, which I did when she was awake and before her shed (next time I'll wait until she's asleep as not to stress her out?). She looked a little pissed at me (but no near as pissed when I hurt her). I have the feeling it was the kind of pain that felt good, and she kind of looked at me like she knew I was trying to help. All the times I applied neosporin she was asleep...
The meds from dr. fryes office will be here tomorrow. I'll start right away and post some more pics soon.
By the way, anyone know if the residual neosporin from the past few days needs to be rinsed off before I start the SSD cream?
Thanks again..

[Bolisnide]

Here are some photos from a few minutes ago.
She didn't eat any crickets yet tonight, which is somewhat unusual.
And is sleeping already? The lights only went out 3 hours ago.
I am starting to get worried of her lack of appetite.
BTW, I say she/her because she has never made a peep. Not one, not even when she was injured. She could be a boy? The frog is about 1.75 inches long...

[Bolisnide]

And... just noticed the hard water spots all over her tank glass. The photos really bring it out I guess. While she's healing, should I use only bottled spring water as opposed to treated well water?

[Heatheranne]

She does look better . The neosporin is waterproof from the petroleum in it. It really does not rinse off. You can try a gentle misting above her that falls over her. She will shed it off her outer layer as usual. The SSD cream will help her to shed as she heals. It's amazing stuff. The ingredients are the same as used often in diabetic ulcers, except the actual medication dosing is less. Pretty neat.

Healing is a bit tiring as her body uses energy to produce extra cells to fill in the new skin. It is common for them to rest more. So long as she eats every couple days, does not lose weight, and continues to heal without signs of infection she should be okay. If only they could produce a fever to help fight any bacteria. Though, her skin looks good. The eye should heal quicker with the antibiotic.

Good thinking...putting on the medications while she is asleep is the way to go. That's what I did too. Of course, any oral meds will be different. If you have to pick her up, use a luke warm paper towel moistened in spring water or boiled dechlor water and carefully wrap it around her like a blanket. This protects her skin and causes a bit less stress. It also makes it much easier to hold her. I will post a pic for you. Allow her SSD cream a few minutes to soak in before you do this.

I found that you'll have less waste of the SSD cream if you actually less a drop fall on her and then smooth it with a Qtip, rather than trying to drop it on the Qtip and then smooth it. It drips off the Qtip before you get it on them.

I think I'd stick with spring water until she heals.

You're doing a great job!

[Heatheranne]

[Bolisnide]

Thanks for the help! What a cutie frog you have there! It looks like he's sleeping in the towel, nice and comfy! I have never handled my frog, except when I brought her home in July. Dr. Frye didn't prescribe any oral meds at this time, but if I ever need to administer some, I now know how!
She didn't eat any crickets last night, and she didn't eat the night before. But she doesn't look like she's loosing weight.... hopefully she'll eat tonight.
Thank you for the advice about applying the SSD cream; I will apply the way you described. And I will switch to spring water for now.
It makes sense that frogs will rest more while they're healing. I won't be so worried about her sleepiness...
You've been so helpful! Everyone has!
Thanks to you all xoxoxo

[Heatheranne]

You're welcome, anytime ! I'll be waiting to hear how he does. Good luck!

[Bolisnide]

Well, the abrasions on my little one are a bit better, but I'm sad to report she has not eaten anything since Thursday night! Should I begin force feeding? How do I force feed? She doesn't look like she's lost weight....
And, I do have flukers Repti-Aid/boost on hand. Should I feed her some of that?
many thanks.

[Heatheranne]

This is a common response to the stress of healing and handling. I would try the reptiboost first. It is dosed by weight. There is a chart in the box.

[flybyferns]

Well, the abrasions on my little one are a bit better, but I'm sad to report she has not eaten anything since Thursday night! Should I begin force feeding? How do I force feed? She doesn't look like she's lost weight....
And, I do have flukers Repti-Aid/boost on hand. Should I feed her some of that?
many thanks.

Bolisnide,
Drop a cricket in to her mouth when she is shedding. Wait til she makes a 'big yawn' .... and plunk! Works like a charm.
You can dip the cricket in the Repti-Aid/boost ?
I fed my black eyed tree frog this way for 5 of the 7 weeks he was not eating.
Get every thing ready first. Mine typically shed ,just, when the lights go out.
Keep your hand near her in case she takes a leap after you drop the cricket in.
Boggie never jumped, he just kept right on shedding.
But I have had another take a much more surprised reaction a cricket magically appearing in his mouth.

She looks much better!
Good luck, Lynn

[Heatheranne]

Lynn's way is a great way to do it and way less stressful . If it doesn't work, I'll teach you the other way.

Your baby will shed more due to the medicine and healing.

I will be at work all day Tuesday and Wednesday. I leave at 6:00 am and generally don't get home until after 8:00 pm. I will try and check posts after work. Generally, once I get home I do frog chores and then wash up for bed.

Lynn, are you here tomorrow in case she needs help?

If you end up having to force feed it'd probably be easiest if you call me or Lynn. Then one of us can walk you through it. It's not hard. It can be a tad stressful for you both though.

[flybyferns]

I'm off tomorrow
I'll pm you
Lynn

[Bolisnide]

Thank you both! like I told Lynn, I wasn't sure if I should try and force feeding at this point or not. But because of your advisement, I'm going to try lynn's method tonight, and see how that goes. If I find she is very resistant, then tomorrow I'll try the repti-boost. but leave crickets in her bowl anyway.... Hopefully she'll take the food while shedding, and if not, will actually eat some on her own from the bowl! Fingers Crossed!
Here are some recent photos:

as you can see, her abrasions are now black. Normal part of the healing process?
She's been on her prescribed drops and SSD cream since friday night.
Thank you both again, I'll keep you posted!
And she doesn't look skinny? kind of plump actually. so strange.

[Heatheranne]

She looks good. The tissue is healing appropriately. The black so-to-speak scabs will slough off. The skin underneath will be green, light tan, or blue. It may or may not fade back to green. Twiggy's abscesses turned black, sloughed off as he shed, and then healed in blue like the color of his sides. It took 6 weeks total. Yours are healing quicker .

Nutrition is important for healing. He'll need the nutrients and protein to help produce new skin cells. Hydration too. Lynn's way is the best bc it doesn't cause much stress . Though it is important to consider the alternatives. I think dusting with the reptaboost is a great idea. Just a tiny pinch and light dusting. The dosing for retf's is pretty small.

How is the eye? It's a bit hard to see?

@Lynn, thanks so much! I love a great nursing joint effort .

@Bolisnide, you're doing a great job!