Gel sac

[anita3]

Hello everyone

I am new to the "frog" world and have acquired 3 red eyed green tree frogs within the last few weeks. One of my females has a large reddish-clean gelanous sack protruding from her rear - this has just developed since last night. I also noticed some blobs of this gel on the top of some of the leaves. I have googled trying to find out what this may be and cannot find any answers - I am hoping someone here with more experience may be able to assist me. I am quite worried about it.

Anita

[KingCam]

A picture would be most helpful. I have a feeling your frog was shedding skin, it ddn't come off all the way, and some water is now stuck in it, making it appear to be a gel filled sack. If that's what it is, there's nothing to be worried about.

HOWEVER! It could be something more serious, please provide a photo.

[anita3]

Attached is a picture of this gel like mass coming from the frog any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated
Anita

[KingCam]

Holy cow!! O_O Your frog appears to be taking the biggest poo of his life. It is likely your frog has been constipated for some time and is now passing it. Ignore what I said in my first post.

I would advise you to administer a luke warm honey bath to help the process along. Use ~10oz of luke warm dechlorinated water with a few drops of honey stirred in. allow the frog to soak for 20 minutes and then rinse him off in a second bath of plain lukewarm dechlorinated water, no honey. Hopefully this will allow your frog to pass the obstruction.

If anyone else has a different opinion please speak up.



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[UncleChester]

Looks like a prolapse to me, poo won't have veins on it. I'm short on time, but google "Tree frog prolapse" or have a look at http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-prolapse.html (when it happened to one of mine) or http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...pse-again.html or many more.

If possible a vet experienced with frogs would be ideal at this point.

[KingCam]

Oh wow, really? I expected a prolapse to be red or bright pink or something.

Thanks for the second opinion.



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[flybyferns]

Attached is a picture of this gel like mass coming from the frog any advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated
Anita

I don't think this is a prolapse. It is a big poop!
Keep an eye on things!
Keep the feeders on the smaller side.
You don't want them to struggle..... swallowing their food.
Better it's .....many smaller crickets / than a few larger ones.

[UncleChester]

I don't think this is a prolapse.

I lean towards prolapse- it was described as a 'gelatinous sack', it appears to have a vein on it (running vertically in the picture and near the cloaca), and it appears to be bluish/pink. I would love to be wrong though.

There are many pictures of prolapses to be found on google for Anita to compare with. Hopefully she'll give us an update on how her frogs doing.

[KingCam]

I lean towards prolapse- it was described as a 'gelatinous sack', it appears to have a vein on it (running vertically in the picture and near the cloaca), and it appears to be bluish/pink. I would love to be wrong though.

There are many pictures of prolapses to be found on google for Anita to compare with. Hopefully she'll give us an update on how her frogs doing.

I think I agree with you now that I downloaded the image and zoomed in on it. I see what you're talking about now.

[Heatheranne]

I think it may be a prolapse. Prolapses often start with constipation. The frog may strain to pass feces which causes increased pressure. It's basically a hernia of the rectum or vent. You can try a warm soak with honey to help pass the feces. If this does not work I would recommend a vet appointment. Allowing it to protrude for too long can alter blood flow to the prolapsed tissue. It is important you tend to it soon. It may retract if the soak allows him to pass the feces.

How is he doing today?

[anita3]

Thanks everyone After a warm honey bath everything is fine now Switching to smaller crickets for sure! If it was a prolapse it has gone back in now - if it was poop he passed it very relieved! he also was very active last night and didnt seem any worse for wear!

[KingCam]

Thanks everyone After a warm honey bath everything is fine now Switching to smaller crickets for sure! If it was a prolapse it has gone back in now - if it was poop he passed it very relieved! he also was very active last night and didnt seem any worse for wear!

That is really great to hear I'm glad the honey bath worked for you!!

If I were you I'd feed the frog in question only soft feeders like cut sections of earth worm for the next two or three weeks while the frog recovers from the prolapse.

[Heatheranne]

Yay! That's great!

[UncleChester]

That's good news! In any case I second Cams suggestion on feeding earthworms. Though if it was a prolapse I would also withhold food for as long as you feel comfortable, a week or preferably longer. Relapses are common so giving the area time to heal is ideal. A qualified vet would likely add in a stitch to help things hold together and be better able to advise on how long you can safely fast for.

Putting this frog in quarantine for a few weeks so you can better monitor it might also be a good idea.

[Heatheranne]

Soft worms cut up into smaller pieces or very small soft crickets would be better. Avoid any larger crickets or insects with any type of shell for a few weeks. If you can get him to soak every night or every other night with warm dechlorinated water it will help him to hydrate and more easily pass his food. but try not to stress him out by handling too much.

[KingCam]

A question for Heather & Brian, in case this ever happens to one of my frogs, would a couple of repti-boost baths also be beneficial for the healing process after the prolapse has been resolved? Seems like some extra vitamins and minerals couldn't hurt, right? The way I figured, if you're gonna be administering warm baths anyway might as well add some vitamins & minerals to it.

[Heatheranne]

Yes.

I quit feeding my PAC when she got constipated and used only honey baths and actually fed her reptaboost alternating every other day until the stool passed. Soaks are fine too, but you should rinse or soak in plain dechlorinated water after the reptaboost soak so bacteria does not grow on the skin.

After the stool passed I only fed cut up night crawlers and the reptaboost for a week.

Think of constipation as pre-obstruction, and a warning sign to fix the problem before worsening. It can be treated and corrected. Honey soaks, hydration, and soft foods or liquid foods are key treatments.

Earth worms and night crawlers tend to digest easily and most will even notice their stools can be softer eating worms. It's basically like the difference in us eating steak vs. eggs. Steak is harder to digest and it takes longer for us to break down the fibers. Same with them. Therefore, worms breakdown and pass easier. Worms also produce a mucousy lubricant, which helps too.

Once constipation leads to obstruction you have a problem. If you can't get the obstructing matter to pass through, the intestines begin to swell, pressure is created without a release, and prolapse may occur. If prolapse is left untreated for too long the pressure within the rectum or vent increases and the prolapse can be so-to-speak pinched off, creating even more swelling and therefore lack of blood flow to that tissue. It's similar to an incarcerated hernia in a human. And so the best treatment is prevention.

Sometimes prolapse can happen without warning. Sometimes sphincter tone loss can also allow it to happen. Either way, if not resolved it can continue to worsen.

The treatments in humans for constipation are drink lots of fluids, maintain proper fiber in your diet, stool softeners, laxatives, rectal stimulation, rectal suppositories, enemas. Frogs - fluids, proper diet, honey, running water gently over the vent area, vet assistance.

Bowel obstruction or impaction is treated by: fluids to loosen the obstruction and provide hydration and nutrients, bowel rest - which means not eating, allowing the intestines to relax and contract back to it's normal tone, allowing peristalsis to restart, relieving the obstruction if not resolved by proper treatments as listed with constipation treatments, which may mean surgical intervention to remove the obstruction with possible resection, cutting the obstructed portion of intestine out. Prolapse may need intervention such as cautiously pushing the prolapse in to stop the lack of blood flow. Though this must be done by a trained individual so the portion is not twisted or further pinched or occluded, causing a worse situation and death of that tissue. Worst case scenario, resection of the dead colon and reattachment of the healthy intestine to the rectum or vent.

I soak my pacs nightly just by putting them in their water bowls. Retf's don't often soak and seem to stress more easily than pacs. It is very important to keep their humidity up for hydration.

If we monitor the foods we feed, monitor our frogs feces, keep them properly hydrated through proper humidity levels and soaks, and keep their temps at the ranges they need to digest and metabolize their food, we can minimize these complications. It may still happen on occasion. Knowing what to watch for and monitoring appropriately, we can hopefully catch these problems quickly.

Unfortunately there are bunches of books on basic frog care, but I have yet to find one on how to treat their ailments, what to look for, simple home remedies, and when to contact a vet.

This forum has provided many of the home remedies we can do to aid our frogs in simple first aid care.

Perhaps I should request from our friend John a section for first aid remedies? It would be easier for our friends and members here to find answers they need. I'll think about it and try and come up with some answers before I request it. I like to be organized .

Good question .

[GrifTheGreat]

The only problem I see with the Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost) soak after a prolapse is that if the vent was irritated while the intestines were protruding from the frogs rectum and the intestines themselves were irritated then the Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost) soak may further irritate the area due to some vitamins and salts within the supplement. As long as there is no vent swelling present the Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost) bath should be beneficial. Everything else Heather stated above can be trusted. After all she does know her medical profession well

[Heatheranne]

That's true Grif, I would defer a reptaboost soak to only if the prolapse has been reduced and has returned to it's normal position inside the frog.