Is this a bullfrog/other questions?

[Duriel]

TLDR: The one on the right.

It rained heavily over the weekend and where I live, that means frogs everywhere (and the occasional toad). I was walking my puppy late at night and she found the bullfrog on the edge of the road. It didn't seem to mind when I picked it up, but as soon as I put it into a 20gal half/half, she goes nuts when I enter the room and hides in this corner. My puppy was much less interested in the live bullfrog than the hundreds of corpses dotting the gravel sidestreet I live on (really... rain = amphibians galore here. I also have 2 american toads I found and 3 shamelessly purchased firebellied toads because I wanted at least one species that doesn't go ape**** every time I get near the tank).

I identified the one on the left as a female bullfrog. The one on the right I snatched up later as it was.. trying to hop through my back screen door. That spot attracts lots of frogs because of the veritable spiderpocalypse. Sorry I'm rambling, my point is I don't know what species this is. It's not shown on the Illinois database. IL Herpetology Species List | Illinois Natural History Survey | Illinois Now the bullfrog spot does describe something similar to this as being a bullfrog so... I'm just going with that then? From other characteristics, it appears to be 2 females of similar size (green snouted one is about 20% bigger). Should I loose the slightly smaller brown one next rain or will they coexist fine? When I approach, they hide together like in the picture, so they seem to get along. They are both perfect size to eat several "large" pet store crickets, but due to my growing collection (and shrinking tablespace), the cost of crickets is growing tiresome already. I've started a breeding box. The females of the store-bought crickets started laying eggs as soon as I put them in the substrate. I now have (by guess) 100s of eggs and have fed all the adults to these frogs.

Figures that, as soon as I start breeding crickets, the pet store "didn't get the shipment" (they don't breed their own? Seems simple enough...) so they won't have any until Friday. For some inexplicable reason, there are no other pet stores within a reasonable driving distance, so I decided to get some waxworms. The firebellies absolutely relished them (they cannot eat large crickets so the buy was mostly for them), and the 2 american toads both spotted the same worm and had an internet moment where it looks like they are staring each other down but there's a worm nearly burrowed into the soil. Unfortunately, the worm burrowed and I had to break up the "confrontation" to remove the worm. I had no luck with the worms and the bullfrog(s), as they will only eat when I am not around and the worms almost immediately started burrowing. They made it a PITA for me to get them out.

Anyways... I'm rambling again...

For reference, they're housed in a 20gal (long) aquarium with smooth gravel on both sides, split by a siliconed angled sheet of lexan. I have 4 fake plants but will be adding more, possibly siliconed to the waterside floor like 2 of them are (need to check the silicone seal as there is about a half inch of water on the bottom of the dry side. I can't tell if it's from splashing, as I initially had the water level near the top of the divider, or from a very slow leak). Edit: Also, the water is filtered.

Neither of these bullfrog(s) are full grown. The larger of the two is about 3/4 of my palm and my hands are medium-sized. How large will they get (I understand females are smaller than males)? Will they ever eat small fish (I tried 5 guppies but they went ignored for 2 days so I removed them)? If you had bullfrogs before, how long did they live on average (guides say different lifespans)? If I left town for 4 days to see family and fed them well the night before, would they be ok?

I'm used to firebellied and american toads but bullfrogs are new (and for some reason exciting) to me. Thanks for reading this long post and your (non-flame) responses.

[KingCam]

I identified the one on the left as a female bullfrog. The one on the right I snatched up later as it was.. trying to hop through my back screen door. That spot attracts lots of frogs because of the veritable spiderpocalypse. Sorry I'm rambling, my point is I don't know what species this is. It's not shown on the Illinois database. IL Herpetology Species List | Illinois Natural History Survey | Illinois Now the bullfrog spot does describe something similar to this as being a bullfrog so... I'm just going with that then?

I would say they are both bullfrogs, but I agree, it doesn't look like your standard bullfrog.

Should I loose the slightly smaller brown one next rain or will they coexist fine?

If they are both bullfrogs they should be fine together, but they will get quite large and require a significant amount of space.

They are both perfect size to eat several "large" pet store crickets, but due to my growing collection (and shrinking tablespace), the cost of crickets is growing tiresome already. I've started a breeding box. The females of the store-bought crickets started laying eggs as soon as I put them in the substrate. I now have (by guess) 100s of eggs and have fed all the adults to these frogs.

I bred crickets for about 6 months once. It was awful. Stinky SOB's, and they are loud! I hate to tell you this, but bullfrogs eat like PIGS. As adult they'll need a minimum of 24 crickets each per week. Probably more. You're either going to have to maintain a very large cricket colony, or breed roaches. I breed roaches myself, and for something that eats as much as a bullfrog I would have to recommend going with Lobster Roaches (Nauphoeta cinerea) or Red Runners (Blatta lateralis), those are basically the two fastest growing species of roach around. You could also start a Blaptica dubia colony, they are much larger and would be more appropriate for a full grown american bullfrog. They are slower to reproduce, but if you started now you could have lots and lots of them by the time your frogs are big enough to need them.

For reference, they're housed in a 20gal (long) aquarium with smooth gravel on both sides, split by a siliconed angled sheet of lexan. I have 4 fake plants but will be adding more, possibly siliconed to the waterside floor like 2 of them are (need to check the silicone seal as there is about a half inch of water on the bottom of the dry side. I can't tell if it's from splashing, as I initially had the water level near the top of the divider, or from a very slow leak).

A 20 gallon may be fine while they are smaller, but they will outgrow it quickly. As adults you should have them in a minimum of a 45 gallon tank. 60 would be better. They have powerful legs and could hurt themselves running into glass while attempting to maneuver a tank that's too small for them.

Neither of these bullfrog(s) are full grown. The larger of the two is about 3/4 of my palm and my hands are medium-sized. How large will they get (I understand females are smaller than males)?

American Bullfrog females get huge, up to 6 or 7 inches long (15-18cm)

Will they ever eat small fish (I tried 5 guppies but they went ignored for 2 days so I removed them)?

They will devour fish, and anything else big enough to fit in their mouths that moves. They are probably just stressed out. Give them a few days (or a week) to settle in and then they'll probably start eating more.

If I left town for 4 days to see family and fed them well the night before, would they be ok?

Oh yeah, easily. Just give them a big meal before you go. Or leave minnows swimming around for them to hunt while you're gone.


One last word of warning. American bullfrogs are known to carry the fungus Chytrid which is deadly to other amphibians. Be EXTREMELY careful not to contaminate your other frogs with them. Unless you are really attached to the idea of keeping them I would release them now, sterilize everything they touched, and save yourself a huge headache. Bullfrogs are incredibly messy, require a ton of space, and will eat you out of house and home.

[Duriel]

Sorry, another long post. I'm bored and haven't got my TV service yet. Also, the internet is fiendishly slow. I should have compressed that image before uploading it. Took forever.

I would say they are both bullfrogs, but I agree, it doesn't look like your standard bullfrog.

Yeah bullfrogs and grey tree frogs are almost as common here as geckos, anoles, centipedes (bad way to wake up) and ... cockroaches were in Oahu Hawaii (was stationed there in the Marine Corps). I had considered collecting some of the treefrogs, but opted against it as I have no experience setting up for them (and small + long jump + very flighty could create unique problems). When I was younger, living in northern Illinois, american toads and an unknown species of common frog were frequent guests. As I got older, they all but disappeared. I'm guessing some kind of pollution. Actually it was probably because they dried up a large reservoir, leaving a muddy, crayfish and leech infested creek as the only substantial body of water. Of store-bought amphibs, fire-bellied toads were always my favorite as they tended to survive for quite some time. Picked up an african horned toad a few years back, did lots of research on a proper setup, and when I woke up in the morning it was dead. That's what I get for going through petsmart I guess.. Now that I know a lot more about amphibs, I went into the same petsmart and could tell the poor creatures were not long for this world. I actually picked up my 3 firebellied toads from a petco down here, but they seem to actually have some idea what they're doing, as all the critters looked healthy and active (well the tarantula just cleans its fangs every time I'm in there... maybe it's in its nature or maybe it thinks I look tasty?). Got my golden/lab puppy through petco in one of their third-party adoption events. Haven't seen too many american toads around here (just the two I snatched), but they are most likely in the small forest behind my place. Not keen on going in there again, as the first time I did, I ended up on the business end of one of these: http://www.whatsthatbug.com/wp-conte...os-300x245.jpg Was not a pleasant experience.

If they are both bullfrogs they should be fine together, but they will get quite large and require a significant amount of space.

Space will be addressed after these ladies establish they aren't already dying of something (landlord is responsible for the lawncare, which includes pesticides; good for keeping the crawling hordes at bay, but I'll have to see if it poisoned the hopping ones).

I bred crickets for about 6 months once. It was awful. Stinky SOB's, and they are loud! I hate to tell you this, but bullfrogs eat like PIGS. As adult they'll need a minimum of 24 crickets each per week. Probably more. You're either going to have to maintain a very large cricket colony, or breed roaches. I breed roaches myself, and for something that eats as much as a bullfrog I would have to recommend going with Lobster Roaches (Nauphoeta cinerea) or Red Runners (Blatta lateralis), those are basically the two fastest growing species of roach around. You could also start a Blaptica dubia colony, they are much larger and would be more appropriate for a full grown american bullfrog. They are slower to reproduce, but if you started now you could have lots and lots of them by the time your frogs are big enough to need them.

For now I have them out in my garage. It's separately insulated from the rest of the house (attached garage on brand new unit), and holds whatever temp the last garage door opening brought in. This obviously won't work in winter, but I still don't know if I'm going to succeed with the crickets or not, so time will tell. I'm kind of put off roaches these days, but seeing hundreds of the things going straight-up greek on a vertical surface is a hard image to shake.

A 20 gallon may be fine while they are smaller, but they will outgrow it quickly. As adults you should have them in a minimum of a 45 gallon tank. 60 would be better. They have powerful legs and could hurt themselves running into glass while attempting to maneuver a tank that's too small for them.

20gal is the biggest I could transport at the moment (I drive a Corvette.. not really practical). Currently shopping for a runs-strong/don't-care-about-the-exterior 4x4 truck (winter and moving things larger than a 20gal aquarium). It's too bad, they've got a $1/gal aquarium sale going on right now. For probably the first time ever, petco is cheaper than walmart.

They will devour fish, and anything else big enough to fit in their mouths that moves. They are probably just stressed out. Give them a few days (or a week) to settle in and then they'll probably start eating more.

Makes sense. I'm going to expand their hiding areas. It's kind of spartan right now.

One last word of warning. American bullfrogs are known to carry the fungus Chytrid which is deadly to other amphibians. Be EXTREMELY careful not to contaminate your other frogs with them.

Unless you are really attached to the idea of keeping them I would release them now, sterilize everything they touched, and save yourself a huge headache. Bullfrogs are incredibly messy, require a ton of space, and will eat you out of house and home.

Oh I wash before and after doing anything with any of the habitats. I'm a bit more thorough with the firebellieds though, because of their toxicity. Mostly I wash because my health insurance isn't the best (who knew it could be so expensive for a 26 year old with no tobacco, family history, or pre-existing conditions). I'm sure they are messy, but they can't compare to my puppy. Daily cage cleanings (she would eat the house if I let her mull around while I was gone) and baths because she rolls around in her ... mistakes.

[KingCam]

centipedes (bad way to wake up) and ... cockroaches

That sounds like a nightmare I've had, haha! If it happened in real life it would be 100x worse O_O Yikes.

I had considered collecting some of the treefrogs, but opted against it as I have no experience setting up for them (and small + long jump + very flighty could create unique problems).

You should reconsider one day Treefrogs make awesome pets, in my experience they chill out after a couple of weeks in captivity. Mine wouldn't dream of jumping away when I open their enclosure, how would they get roaches from my magic forceps if they ran!? lol

Of store-bought amphibs, fire-bellied toads were always my favorite as they tended to survive for quite some time. Picked up an african horned toad a few years back, did lots of research on a proper setup, and when I woke up in the morning it was dead. That's what I get for going through petsmart I guess.. Now that I know a lot more about amphibs, I went into the same petsmart and could tell the poor creatures were not long for this world. I actually picked up my 3 firebellied toads from a petco down here, but they seem to actually have some idea what they're doing, as all the critters looked healthy and active (well the tarantula just cleans its fangs every time I'm in there... maybe it's in its nature or maybe it thinks I look tasty?).

Never had firebelly toads or a horned frog. I really don't know why, they just never seemed very interesting to me.

Not keen on going in there again, as the first time I did, I ended up on the business end of one of these: http://www.whatsthatbug.com/wp-conte...os-300x245.jpg Was not a pleasant experience.

OUCH!! I have handled those with tweesers before, and their stinger is freakishly long!!!

I'm kind of put off roaches these days, but seeing hundreds of the things going straight-up greek on a vertical surface is a hard image to shake.

I don't blame you. Roaches are pretty disgusting insects.

For probably the first time ever, petco is cheaper than walmart.

lol, I didn't even know it was possible to get a good deal at a Petco.

Oh I wash before and after doing anything with any of the habitats. I'm a bit more thorough with the firebellieds though, because of their toxicity. Mostly I wash because my health insurance isn't the best (who knew it could be so expensive for a 26 year old with no tobacco, family history, or pre-existing conditions).

Good call!

I'm sure they are messy, but they can't compare to my puppy. Daily cage cleanings (she would eat the house if I let her mull around while I was gone) and baths because she rolls around in her ... mistakes.

Nothing is more difficult than a puppy, you're definitely right about that. I've never actually had a dog. I hope to have a Vizsla puppy in my future.

[Duriel]

Well I figured out that my silicone job was not leaking. About an hour after seeing dry-side water level at about 1/2 an inch in the gravel, I came back and it had spontaneously jumped to 2 inches. The bullfrogs were sitting on the dry side practically whistling and darting their eyes around as if they weren't the ones splashing the water over. I need to find a water filter system with a longer (perhaps adjustable?) neck so I don't have to have almost 6 inches of water on the wet side to make it work.