New baby Pacman. New guy on forum :)

[Mr Drippy Smudge]

Hi guys my name is Edd and this is the 1st amphibian I have purchased as well as my first post on this forum.

Is 90 Degrees faaarrr too hot for a Pacman setup? I have read soooo many different care sheets for these guys that sort of state (when compiled) that anything between 75 - 90 is ok for day time temps.

The side with my heat mat gets to 90 degrees F (peak) during the day. (I actually have the thermometer on the glass that the heat matt is attached too. The opposite side is much cooler at about 80F....is this ok as the frog can chose where to plonk itself down?
It tails off to about 87 degrees at about 1600 onward. (on the heat mat side)
The cool side goes from 80 - 85 depending on the ambient room temp.
Humidity is about 75 - 79.

Exo Terra 12x12x12 with 2x single compact canopies.
I use a 26 watt heat mat on side, a repti glo 13 wat lamp for the day time
I use a 15 watt heat repti glo lamp and the heat mat at night time (ambient temp drops to about 60F in my house)

I have had the lil guy for 2 days now...he/she is under a lot of stress from the move I think. I had to push his locust against his/her lips before he/she would open mouth to eat (I have not seen any faeces yet so I think it has not eaten in a few days, when I called the reptile shop they said they didn't know!).

I have included a few pics of my setup and frog - so please let me know if there is anything glaringly wrong!! (Is my pacman too thin?)



Thank you for taking the time to read my post,
Edd

[GRABibus]

90°c is a lot I think if there is 90 in all the tank. The frog won't have the possibility to regulate its body temperature, especially in a 12x12x12.
Temperature should go from 77F (Cool point) to 85F (Hot point) during the day.
Also, it seems that the light is too strong. That can create stress also.

[GrifTheGreat]

GRABibus is right 90° is way too hot. I believe your heat mat is too large. you should only need a 4 to 8 watt UTH placed on the side of the tank. The bulb you're using isn't good. You shouldn't use Fluorescents or any kind of UVB bulbs. Switch to a UTH for a 5 gallon tank or a 10 gallon tank. Buy a Fluker's 5.5" Clamp Lamp with dimmer switch so you can adjust the amount of heat and light produced by the bulb. You should only use incandescent bulbs no higher than 50 watts. Look into Exo-Terra bulbs. A basking spotlight with concentrated beam for day and a Heat Glo Infrared for night.

Day temps should never exceed 85° and not go below 80° Until night. Night temps should range from 75° to 79°, but you'll want to hover around 78°.

Humidity should be 80%.

The position of you're temp and humidity gauges should be positioned in the dead center of the back wall 1.5" to 2" above the substrate. This will provide a more accurate ambient air and humidity reading.

Try these changes immediately and keep us posted.

[Mr Drippy Smudge]

Ok,
This is so frustrating - no matter how much I thought i had researched it all counts for nothing in the end.
I am very concerned now - I tore the heat mat off the side and took the Repti Glo off the canopy. I will use another spare night heat bulb in place of the Repti Glo as it is not bright and produces just as much heat. I have a 8 watt heat mat fortunately and will stick that onto the side in place of the one I had before...Though the clamp will have to wait until next pay day. I hope this will do - I know the heat will be reduced drasticaly by the removal of the heat mat - hopefully proper temperatures will be maintained by the 2 night lights and the lower wattage heat mat.
Is there any problem with running 2 night heat lights (blue tube by Exo Terra) during the day? the heat it gives of is just as much as the Exo Terra Repti Glo daytime bulb.
Do I need a light source for the Pacman or can it share my daylight hours? which is pretty much 12 hours by 12 hours anyway.
As far as the thermometer and hydrometer go...can I stick them to the fake wall that comes with the glass exo terra? or hollow out a space for them?

[Lija]

don't panic and watch temperatures for a day or so. you can stick gauges anywhere, as long as they are on a same level that your pacman is ( just above substrate), i personally hate to stick anything to the foam background but if you want you can. also keep in mind those analog ones can be really off in their readings

by the way really nice frog, congrats on getting it! reminds me of mine, all there is - a very big mouth and eyes :lol:

[Mr Drippy Smudge]

Hi again,

well, I have re-positioned the thermometer and hydrometer (then read Lija's comment too late lol). I put an 8 watt heat matt in the place of the 26 watt. I have 2 Night heat lamps (one 15 one 25 Watt) on at the moment. I will have to keep these night heat lamps on 24 hours a day now to keep heat up...is this ok? Can I use my own light cycle (the sun)...it is pretty much a 13 hour cycle.
@ Lija - It is hard not to panic....I thought I had things sorted before I bought the little guy I dont want to hurt it in any way. Next month I will spring for a better thermometer as well then I guess.

[GrifTheGreat]

Hi again,

well, I have re-positioned the thermometer and hydrometer (then read Lija's comment too late lol). I put an 8 watt heat matt in the place of the 26 watt. I have 2 Night heat lamps (one 15 one 25 Watt) on at the moment. I will have to keep these night heat lamps on 24 hours a day now to keep heat up...is this ok? Can I use my own light cycle (the sun)...it is pretty much a 13 hour cycle.
@ Lija - It is hard not to panic....I thought I had things sorted before I bought the little guy I dont want to hurt it in any way. Next month I will spring for a better thermometer as well then I guess.

Moonlight bulbs will affect the day/night cycle. If they were infrared there would be no issue, but the blue hue is meant to represent moonlight which may confuse the frog causing stress. As long as the day temp stays at 80° or above during the day you should be fine.

If the light hood assist in holding heat and humidity in then that's a plus and will hold some heat in with the lights off but you're going to want to find a way to create a 12 hour day/night cycle. if the blue tubes are bright there will be an issue. If the room is well lit the frog will know the difference between day and night, but never keep the enclosure near Windows or air vents. Not even doors that lead outdid so there are no drafts. Being near a window with the Sun shining in could cook the frog as well due to heat buildup inside the tank.

[Mr Drippy Smudge]

the blue hue is all but invisible - It says "for easy night time viewing" but It makes no difference at all. I have checked and there are no drafts or direct sunlight. Thankfully none of those are an issue. The blue is not visible at all in the day time - they simply become heat lamps.
It matters not anyway - I have just made a load of cover from a spare fake plant I had. I am using a 2.0 light now - with all the cover it really is perfect I think - just enough light escape the cover to provide a day time feel. At night that light will go off and I will use a 25 Watt night heat lamp which so far is keeping the temp at a healthy 80F (this will drop - I have set alarm for 0330 to check it, it is now 0050).....I think I may have nailed it!
I will keep you all posted and let you know how things went in the morning!

[GrifTheGreat]

the blue hue is all but invisible - It says "for easy night time viewing" but It makes no difference at all. I have checked and there are no drafts or direct sunlight. Thankfully none of those are an issue. The blue is not visible at all in the day time - they simply become heat lamps.
It matters not anyway - I have just made a load of cover from a spare fake plant I had. I am using a 2.0 light now - with all the cover it really is perfect I think - just enough light escape the cover to provide a day time feel. At night that light will go off and I will use a 25 Watt night heat lamp which so far is keeping the temp at a healthy 80F (this will drop - I have set alarm for 0330 to check it, it is now 0050).....I think I may have nailed it!
I will keep you all posted and let you know how things went in the morning!

Sounds good. Just be careful. Fluorescents can be harmful to their eyes.

[Heatheranne]

Welcome and Congrats!

Nice start for your frog .

If I could just ask what kind of substrate you have? It looks like topsoil with vermiculite. If it is you should change it to Eco earth coco fiber. The vermiculite could accidentally be ingested when he dives at his food.

[Mr Drippy Smudge]

Hi,

This morning at 0500 the temperature read:

-80F from about 2 inches above substrate on back wall of setup
-77F from a thermometer I dropped onto substrate

I am very happy with the result!

@Heatheranne - thank you for your nice welcome I will change the substrate today as soon as the shop opens! Though should I leave it a couple of days as I have already moved stuff around in the setup and I am worried about stressing the frog out more than I have already done?

I think my frog may have gone into aestivation due to the stress of moving and my complete new comers ineptitude. The poor thing has totally buried itself in the substrate! Should I leave it there for a couple of days until it decides to come out itself?
It ate last night.

Many thanks,
Edd

[GrifTheGreat]

Hi,

This morning at 0500 the temperature read:

-80F from about 2 inches above substrate on back wall of setup
-77F from a thermometer I dropped onto substrate

I am very happy with the result!

@Heatheranne - thank you for your nice welcome I will change the substrate today as soon as the shop opens! Though should I leave it a couple of days as I have already moved stuff around in the setup and I am worried about stressing the frog out more than I have already done?

I think my frog may have gone into aestivation due to the stress of moving and my complete new comers ineptitude. The poor thing has totally buried itself in the substrate! Should I leave it there for a couple of days until it decides to come out itself?
It ate last night.

Many thanks,
Edd

No worries Red. burrowing completely is normal behavior. If you would like when feeding time comes around tonight just unburry his head so he can see and offer food after about 5 minutes. Aestivation is a dry period dormancy. In the dry season as temps soar and water and humidity levels recede. they burrow deep down and shed several layers of skin creating what is called the epithelial Sac. This special cocoon made of layers of skin and mucus protects them from dying out during the several months that they lay dormant. When the rains return the emerge to gorge on food and find a mate.

Your frog has burrowed down for normal rest during the day. Aestivation should never take place accidentally and never be allowed to occur in frogs under 1 year of age due to accidental death. As long as you keep the temps in the correct range, substrate moisture up, and humidity correct he will not feel the need to do so.

Oh and sorry I didn't welcome you, but I will now. Welcome to Frog Forum Edd

[Heatheranne]

Hi Edd,

I would change the substrate a soon as you get new .

[GeorgiaBulls]

Welcome to the board.
U have a great looking frogger there.
Glad to see u are caring enough to try and get him set up correctly.

[lumpbump]

Hey mate, welcome. Just my 2 cents - Use some kind of water conditioning additive that removes chlorine and chloramines from the water your using to expand the coir and filling the water dish with. Also you will want to suppliment your frogs diet with some calcium and vitamin powder by dusting your feeders. Its suggested you dont mix the calcium and the vitamin. Just do calcium every other feeding and vitamin once a week. Calcium is important for young pacmans developing skeletal systems.

[Namio]

Welcome and Congrats!

Nice start for your frog .

If I could just ask what kind of substrate you have? It looks like topsoil with vermiculite. If it is you should change it to Eco earth coco fiber. The vermiculite could accidentally be ingested when he dives at his food.

I was going to mention about the substrate but I'm glad Heather's got it!

Edd, is that an Ornate Horned frog you got there?

[Mr Drippy Smudge]

I think it is an Ornate as it has the spots on the back of the eyes? Sorry for quality of pic.

Thanks for the welcome Griif

[Namio]

I think it is an Ornate as it has the spots on the back of the eyes? Sorry for quality of pic.

Thanks for the welcome Griif

Yup that's an Ornate for sure.