my weekend warrior project, 125G paludarium

[deranged chipmunk]

Thanks adam. Yes, that palm is rooted under water. I have soil under my gravel substrate to help the root feeders that are submerged. Most of the plants i chose to plant in the aquatic section will emerge from the water. It will block the view some, but i wanted the tank to look like you were in a boat, looking at the shoreline. And since plants would block your view in the wild, i'm planning on the same effect to occur. I also added some fish after i took the pics. There was already a bristlenose pleco in there, but i added a couple zebra danios, a black neon tetra and a pair of harlequin rasboras. They came from one of my son's planted tanks. They needed a new home because we are swapping tanks. He gets my 20L paludarium with my rubber banded frog and i get his 30L tank which is going to be a planted shrimp tank. They are not permanent residents in the 125, endler's live bearers will be, when i can get them.

[flynmnky]

OK, so following along here, hoping to also do an egg crate false bottom great stuff build.. So, you build the EC frame, cover with GS. Then do you use aquarium silicone to stick the coco fiber all over? Do you seal over that?
How does that hold up under water?
Do you build in wells for plant pots that root in substrate? I am hoping to use a lot of epiphytic plants. Will they adhere to this surface?
I am building a 75g in wall enclosure, and would like to do this too!
I have a lot more questions but this is a start. If there is a better thread to read on this, please point the way~!
Thanks,
Elizabeth

[deranged chipmunk]

Hi Elizabeth, let me see if i can answer round 1 of your questions

OK, so following along here, hoping to also do an egg crate false bottom great stuff build.. So, you build the EC frame, cover with GS. Then do you use aquarium silicone to stick the coco fiber all over? Do you seal over that?
How does that hold up under water?

yes, i built the egg crate structure first, then foamed directly onto the egg crate. i used GE Silicone II to adhere the coco fiber to the foam. but only in certain sections. anywhere that would be difficult to repair, i used the brown silicone. the reasoning was that "if" the coco fiber eroded, it would still be brown and no that yellow gs. everywhere else, i used titebond III wood glue. just make up a mixture of wood glue and coco fiber, it should be about the consistency of runny oatmeal, and then paint it on. caution, ood glue takes MUCH longer to dry and cure than silicone does. i let mine dry for a week. now, here are the differences between the two, so you can decide how you want to do it. when using silicone, your coco fiber needs to be 100% dry, otherwise, it will not adhere to the silicone. silicone can be difficult to fill in all the nooks and crannies of the great stuff. finally, and here is the most important part, if you have bare spots after covering with the silicone method, you can NOT go back over them with more silicone. silicone will bond with almost everything EXCEPT previously cured silicone. now, the wood glue. first off, you can get a gallon of titebond III (the green label and yes it MUST be titebond 3, it is the only version that is 100% waterproof) for less than $30 at Lowe's. that's equivalent to 4 tubes of silicone and will cover a lot more. using it is simple. mix it up, paint it on, wait for it to dry. got bare spots? no problem. go for coat number 2, same way. just go over what you did previously. i did not seal over the coco fiber with the exception of one spot. the water fall coming from the pond. i painted on a couple heavy coats of only titebond (no fiber) after the stuff cured. this was to keep erosion from happening since it is in a spot with running water. alternatively, you could do the same for a water feature using clear 2 part epoxy mixed with coco fiber. so far, after just under a month, i see no degradation in the coco fiber anywhere.

Do you build in wells for plant pots that root in substrate? I am hoping to use a lot of epiphytic plants. Will they adhere to this surface?
I am building a 75g in wall enclosure, and would like to do this too!
I have a lot more questions but this is a start. If there is a better thread to read on this, please point the way~!
Thanks,
Elizabeth

for root feeders on the background, i placed small mesh pots in strategic locations and then i foamed over them. after they cure, i used bamboo skewers (for grilling) to poke hole in the foam for drainage. i poked a LOT of holes. a couple of the planters i did carve though. i shot out a few big globs of foam in spots and then just carved them into little hidden planters. depending on the epiphytic plants you are using, some will attack themselves others will need to be attached mechanically. Tillandsias and bromeliads (same family), for example, will need to be attached in some way, whether you use crazy glue (yes, it is safe. it becomes inert once it dries), wire ties, silicone, tillandsia glue, ect. personally, i like stainless steel wire. i have access to it and it won't corrode. a lot of junk yards use it to attach part tags to parts when they sell them. if you want to use that method and don't have access to them, let me know and i will mail you some climbing vines like perperomia and a few others will attach on their own eventually, but will need some help in the beginning. personally, i suggest planting them into your substrate and letting them climb naturally. you can always snip off the bottom once they take hold if you are looking for the "vine growing from nowhere" look. otherwise, the same methods used to attach broms will work. if you decide to go that wire route, attaching a piece of long fiber sphagnum together with the plant will help keep it moist will it acclimates and begins to take hold.
a 75 in wall? too cool......post pics and show your progress. any other questions feel free to ask oh, and there are threads out there that are much better than mine, you just need to search a bit to find them good luck with it!!!

[flynmnky]

Wow! thanks for a really great reply.. very thorough. That clears up a lot of my questions and really helps me plan. Titebond III sounds pretty perfect and I'm shocked to learn that you can use it underwater. I love that you are taking creative approaches to landscaping on such a large scale with such a small budget! Really will allow me to spend my money on plants. :-) I'll defienitely be following along.. :-)

[flynmnky]

One more thing, do you have any mosses growing on this type of surface?

[deranged chipmunk]

Yup.....all along the right side, around the pond. There are a few aquatic mosses as well as a species of semi aquatic moss i field collected.

[flynmnky]

Have you field collected any branches/wood? I live in a hardwood forest. What are the rules for that?

[mikesfrogs]

What type of foam is that?

that is a heck ton of foam. im almost finished my paludarium as well. i hope all goes well with yours!

[deranged chipmunk]

great stuff Mike. there's about 12 cans worth in this tank.....lol if i ever get back onto my red eye tank, that will have construction insulating styrofoam in it.

[deranged chipmunk]

Have you field collected any branches/wood? I live in a hardwood forest. What are the rules for that?

i have field collected wood. i don't believe that there are any "rules" so to speak. basically, dead, dry hardwood. no evergreens, and no soft woods. my mantella tank has some locally collected oak. i have used the same pieces in planted tanks for a few years now. yup, you read that right, the same pieces of wood submerged for a few years and no rot. gotta love oak!! LOL oh, and stay away from grape wood vines, they will most definitely rot in a high humidity viv.

[flynmnky]

How dry? Should I age the wood before adding, or is it good to go straight outta the woods?

[deranged chipmunk]

if it's dead wood, then you are kinda good to go right out of the woods. i usually give it a nice, strong bleach bath once or twice outside to kill any hitchhikers that you don't want in the house. then i would boil or bake it. i learned a long time ago that the CDC requires a minimum of 20 minutes in boiling water to sterilize anything, so i go with that as a start. don't forget to remove any bark. and get a TON of scented candles, unless you like the smell of oak tea or roasted oak....lol for baking, i bake @ 350 for 1/2 an hour. if you live near a lake, they are great places to find some nice, driftwood.

[deranged chipmunk]

oh, almost forgot to answer your question, no green wood. nothing fresh. i believe that if you were to use something that was still alive on the inside, that the piece of wood rotting would be the least of your issues. i would worry about mold and bad fungii get in that way.

[flynmnky]

I live near a river with amazing driftwood. Not only that, but I have even collecting good pieces for years. Great to think I could use them!

[deranged chipmunk]

you sound like a planted tank guy, like me......lol

[flynmnky]

Girl, but yes... ALMOST more excited about the plants than the frogs.... Almost...

[deranged chipmunk]

my apologies and so am i, about the plants....hence the paludariums...LOL it's very cool to be able to mix the two disciplines together.

[flynmnky]

:-) wish I knew as much about planted viv's as you.... Still researching health requirements of the plants I want to keep. Even harder than the frogs, IMO...

[deranged chipmunk]

indeed it is...lol i have been doing a lot of research for my mantella tank. madagascar biotope went out the window on that one. aquatics are easy, anubias, crypts, ferns.....easy, i have 'em all in various tanks. but terrestrials?? forget it. very few varieties are exported. the ones that are, are mostly orchids, which is great, i planned on them. but ground cover plants? no way. i think i found one fern variety from there that i could possibly obtain. possibly. so now i gotta wing it and still do right by the frogs, which is still most important

[flynmnky]

I'm fascinated by substrate. Really interested in creating a sustainable microcosm to feed my enclosure. I noticed you use a different soil mix. What do you do and why? (Yeah, a big question I know....)