Need some help with my pacmans.

[GrifTheGreat]

Once they reach about 2 inches, you dont need to feed them as frequently. Three days a week should do. How often are you feeding them? After the first month, once they reach about two inches, their growth rate slows down dramatically, and so does their metabolism. You may be feeding them more than they are capable of digesting, which will cause problems.

I keep my frogs on foam pads, if I notice they havent pooped in a while I remove the foam pads so that they are in only shallow water. Being in the water all the time seems to help them drop a deuce much easier.

I strongly disagree with a 2" frog only needing to be fed 3 days a week. None of mine ever slow growth at 2" male or female. Babies and juveniles should be fed daily to every other day. A 2" frog is still a juvenile and will go through many more rapid growth stages before reaching subadult and adult stages. They need as much food and nutrition as possible until they reach subadult or 3". This also depends on what you are feeding them as some items do take longer to digest like fish, pinky mice, Hornworms, Etc. The foam rubber setup is mostly for a breeder's setup for ease of cleaning. It works, but with nowhere to hide the frogs tend to become stressed. Philippe does have some nice foam rubber setups with caves carved into the rubber that may be less stressful on the frog though and probably should be utilized in that form.

[lovenokia]

Once they reach about 2 inches, you dont need to feed them as frequently. Three days a week should do. How often are you feeding them? After the first month, once they reach about two inches, their growth rate slows down dramatically, and so does their metabolism. You may be feeding them more than they are capable of digesting, which will cause problems.

I keep my frogs on foam pads, if I notice they havent pooped in a while I remove the foam pads so that they are in only shallow water. Being in the water all the time seems to help them drop a deuce much easier.

hmm, I have had my frog for about a month, but it has barely grown. It is almost 2 inches now but that is about it. It was a little more than an inch and a half when I first got him.
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[Ra]

At about two inches their growth rate slows. By 3 days a week, it would be better to say every other day. Thats my experience feeding with high calorie foods, but most sources Ive seen say every other day, particularly Phillipe De Vosjoli, who I trust. Pacman food says to feed 2 to 3 times a week for a baby frog. That seemed a little short to me, but i soon realized that a little bit of such a high calorie food goes a long way. A baby frog in the wild that eats another frog wont eat for a couple of days. One that eats a bug or a worm may be hungry again the next day. SO I suppose it depends on what and how much you are feeding. My point was that he may be over feeding, and didnt realize that his frogs have simply underwent a change in growth rate. The first months growth rate is phenomenal. After that, it slows down a bit.

I quote Phillipe in short
froglets up to 2", feed supplemented three week old crickets every one to two days
froglets 2 to 4 inches (5 to 10 cm) feed three week old crickets, a pre-killed pinie mouse (rump dipped in calcium) or supplemented superworms every two to three days.<-------
adults 4 to 5 inches offer crickets or superworms, nightcrawlers or prekilled weaned mouse every 7 to 10 days during the active period.

thats what he suggests.

I have several frogs over 2 inches and under 3.5...if I fed them everyday, their stomachs would become bloated. Overfeeding can result in weight problems, liver damage and other problems, such as constipation or idigestion.

I was not suggesting the foam rubber set up, but mentioned how i will remove the foam so they can sit in shallow water if they havent pooped in a while. WHat I was suggesting was putting them in a shallow water set up until they poop (extended soak).
I monitor my frogs closely. Smaller froglets, like many baby and juvenile animals are easily scared and stressed. I provide them with foam rubber that has small depressions covered with a small amount of moss (sections of short strand sheet moss work well for the impaction weary). As they get older, they get more comfortable. Some of my frogs, such as my Fantasy Frog, do better in set ups where they have a foam cave to back up into. All of them will utilize a cave if provided one. Some of them show no signs of stress whatsoever if not provided with a cave and do just fine sitting on a foam pad. To me its a matter of paying attention to your animal. Ive found that some will back into a corner of the terrarium and hunker down, being in contact with a surface on all sides seem to convince them they are well hidden.

[Ra]

hmm, I have had my frog for about a month, but it has barely grown. It is almost 2 inches now but that is about it. It was a little more than an inch and a half when I first got him.
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I dont know what to tell you. Every Horned Frog I have ever owned has generally more than quadrupled in size the first month I owned them, many times starting out at nickel or about quarter size. In that first month, I fed the frogs daily. Once they reached over two inches I began feeding them every other day or every third day, depending on appetite and digestion (for instance, if the frog was still clearly full of food I would wait another day).

[GrifTheGreat]

At about two inches their growth rate slows. By 3 days a week, it would be better to say every other day. Thats my experience feeding with high calorie foods, but most sources Ive seen say every other day, particularly Phillipe De Vosjoli, who I trust. Pacman food says to feed 2 to 3 times a week for a baby frog. That seemed a little short to me, but i soon realized that a little bit of such a high calorie food goes a long way. A baby frog in the wild that eats another frog wont eat for a couple of days. One that eats a bug or a worm may be hungry again the next day. SO I suppose it depends on what and how much you are feeding. My point was that he may be over feeding, and didnt realize that his frogs have simply underwent a change in growth rate. The first months growth rate is phenomenal. After that, it slows down a bit.

I quote Phillipe in short
froglets up to 2", feed supplemented three week old crickets every one to two days
froglets 2 to 4 inches (5 to 10 cm) feed three week old crickets, a pre-killed pinie mouse (rump dipped in calcium) or supplemented superworms every two to three days.<-------
adults 4 to 5 inches offer crickets or superworms, nightcrawlers or prekilled weaned mouse every 7 to 10 days during the active period.

thats what he suggests.

I have several frogs over 2 inches and under 3.5...if I fed them everyday, their stomachs would become bloated. Overfeeding can result in weight problems, liver damage and other problems, such as constipation or idigestion.

I was not suggesting the foam rubber set up, but mentioned how i will remove the foam so they can sit in shallow water if they havent pooped in a while. WHat I was suggesting was putting them in a shallow water set up until they poop (extended soak).
I monitor my frogs closely. Smaller froglets, like many baby and juvenile animals are easily scared and stressed. I provide them with foam rubber that has small depressions covered with a small amount of moss (sections of short strand sheet moss work well for the impaction weary). As they get older, they get more comfortable. Some of my frogs, such as my Fantasy Frog, do better in set ups where they have a foam cave to back up into. All of them will utilize a cave if provided one. Some of them show no signs of stress whatsoever if not provided with a cave and do just fine sitting on a foam pad. To me its a matter of paying attention to your animal. Ive found that some will back into a corner of the terrarium and hunker down, being in contact with a surface on all sides seem to convince them they are well hidden.

Gotcha. Usually the climate plays a serious roll in their digestion so mine are ready to eat at the same time daily to every other day. Completely understand now what you're saying. had some confusion for a little bit. I would suggest that people who own these frog should purchase Philippe's books as they are a vital source of information on Ceratophrys.

The hunkering down is definitely a comfort posture. When scared they do this like they would in their burrows so they would be less visible. Ornates especially since this is also their defensive posture.

I believe we should also state that no two frogs are alike in growth rate and appetite so they will each feed and grow somewhat different. You and I have had some real fast growers recently and have seen some slow growers as well. Sometimes I feel the ones that grow at a slower more steady rate become larger frogs that those that explode to 4" in a couple months, but that has yet to be fully determined.

All good. No more confusion

[Ra]

I was mostly suggesting the possibility that their seeming to not eat may be a change in growth rate and metabolism and also that the appearance of a bloated stomach could be the result of over feeding due to maintaining a daily feeding regimen.

[GrifTheGreat]

I was mostly suggesting the possibility that their seeming to not eat may be a change in growth rate and metabolism and also that the appearance of a bloated stomach could be the result of over feeding due to maintaining a daily feeding regimen.

The Cranwelli doesn't appear bloated though. The blunt angled protrusion on the right side suggests impaction or constipation near impaction. I have seen bloating from over feeding like you're saying. I see now. You don't have to defend your statement Ra. I understand. I'm not trying to discredit your posts. Everything you've stated is true. I was just adding in detail differences and elements that can also affect digestion in these frogs. Sometimes how you house them and especially with different substrates and with no substrate affects their climate in different ways and so also affects their digestion.

[lovenokia]

I dont know what to tell you. Every Horned Frog I have ever owned has generally more than quadrupled in size the first month I owned them, many times starting out at nickel or about quarter size. In that first month, I fed the frogs daily. Once they reached over two inches I began feeding them every other day or every third day, depending on appetite and digestion (for instance, if the frog was still clearly full of food I would wait another day).

been feeding everyday and dusting calcium 3 times a week and herptivite once.
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[GrifTheGreat]

been feeding everyday and dusting calcium 3 times a week and herptivite once.
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They don't all grow at the same rate lovenokia. Some grow extremely fast and reach near adult size in less than 3 months and others grow slowly and reach adult size at 8 month to a year which is when they reach sexual maturity. Your frog is growing fine. Try not to worry.

[Ra]

been feeding everyday and dusting calcium 3 times a week and herptivite once.
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Do you gutload the crickets for a day prior to feeding?

They certainly do all grow at considerable different rates. The growth rate you are seeing definately isnt bad or a sign there is a problem.

[lovenokia]

Do you gutload the crickets for a day prior to feeding?

They certainly do all grow at considerable different rates. The growth rate you are seeing definately isnt bad or a sign there is a problem.

I feed mainly night crawlers now. Everyday
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[GrifTheGreat]

I feed mainly night crawlers now. Everyday
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You should rotate between crickets and night crawlers. Say like twice a week offer a couple gut loaded dusted crickets with your frogs night crawlers. Feed crickets one or two days a week and the rest night crawlers. If offered a varied diet they will grow faster. Even offer Pacman Food between night crawlers. You can even dust the worms with the Pacman food Whig does work well.

[Ra]

ooh, Im gonna try that right now with my fantasy frog, dusting the crawler with pacman food. never even thought of that!

[Ra]

A pretty substantial amount of the pacman food caked onto the worm, to the point where the worm would have died, had my fantasy frog not oh so eagerly devoured it. Nice trick. Ive tried making worm shaped peices, didnt fall for it, mouse shaped, no go. Even molded the pacman food to strongly resemble a frog. The only other trick thats worked is to hold a nightcrawler out, and when he opens his mouth, insert the pacman food. This seems less mean hahaha.

[GrifTheGreat]

A pretty substantial amount of the pacman food caked onto the worm, to the point where the worm would have died, had my fantasy frog not oh so eagerly devoured it. Nice trick. Ive tried making worm shaped peices, didnt fall for it, mouse shaped, no go. Even molded the pacman food to strongly resemble a frog. The only other trick thats worked is to hold a nightcrawler out, and when he opens his mouth, insert the pacman food. This seems less mean hahaha.

Well they're not stupid Ra and have excellent vision as well as seeing in color. Its pretty hard to fool them. Smell also gave the Pacman Food shapes away. If the frog doesn't detect a hint of worm or mouse scent then its a no go.

[Necrosys]

Little update: last night my ornata past away RIP my little friend ill miss you.

I hope my cranwelli will become better in the next few days.

The bump is gone since two days, but no poop too find, so i stopped the soaks.

He always refused any food given but now he ate two crickets.

Keep you posted.

Grtz

[GrifTheGreat]

Little update: last night my ornata past away RIP my little friend ill miss you.

I hope my cranwelli will become better in the next few days.

The bump is gone since two days, but no poop too find, so i stopped the soaks.

He always refused any food given but now he ate two crickets.

Keep you posted.

Grtz

I'm sorry to hear about your Ornate RIP. Do keep us posted on the Cranwelli. I would continue the soaks until the frog poops.

[Necrosys]

Thx Grif, ok ill continu the soaks until he poops.