Sleeping in the Water Dish?

[Bolisnide]

You know, now that I'm thinking about it, sugar may be for a prolapse only.... I'm trying to google it now.

[Bolisnide]

This link is knd of interesting...
FROG MEDICINAL CARE INTESTINAL PROBLEMS OFFERED BY Pollywogs World of Frogs

Maybe just do the honey bath or if unavailable, just plain warm treated water....
I don't know why I thought that sugar may be helpful... I'm sorry about that.

I hope you find some poop soon!

[HerpDerp]

I can pick up some honey today. No big deal. I actually found that exact page yesterday and read through it. I've decided if I don't see a poop by the end of the week I'll call the pet store and see if they'll pay for a vet visit. So glad for the 15 day guarantee. I just hope they wont want to take him back or something like that!

[CamilleElise]

I'm not a vet or expert, but of all the Whites I have owned, the two that slept in the water dish did show other signs of illness and had to go to the vet. Now, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but my frogs generally don't sleep in water. They are generally alert and awake when soaking in their dish, and during the day are elsewhere in the tank hiding. I'd definitely see if a vet visit is possible, just in case. Good luck with your little guy, he's so lucky to have an attentive owner, because I feel so many of these little ones are sold to die in inexperienced homes that view them all as "easily replaceable."

[Bolisnide]

I'm not a vet or expert, but of all the Whites I have owned, the two that slept in the water dish did show other signs of illness and had to go to the vet. Now, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but my frogs generally don't sleep in water. They are generally alert and awake when soaking in their dish, and during the day are elsewhere in the tank hiding. I'd definitely see if a vet visit is possible, just in case. Good luck with your little guy, he's so lucky to have an attentive owner, because I feel so many of these little ones are sold to die in inexperienced homes that view them all as "easily replaceable."

Agree...
my white's sleeps up high, never in his water. So it is very odd. And the fact she noticed bloat is not a very good sign. If the petstore will pay for a vet visit, I say take it!
Just on an aside, my white's slept IN his substrate for a few days when I brought him home! His humidity was too low, but even when I adjusted that, he continued to hide in the coco fiber. I gave him a pedialyte (1:10 ped:water) soak, and he eventually settled into his new home. So.... it may be stress also???

[HerpDerp]

I got some honey so tonight I'll soak him and see what happens. Hopefully I'll see a poop! When he isn't in the water dish he sits in the corner on the bottom to sleep. The first couple days I had him he actually slept up high so I'm thinking he's impacted and that's why he's getting worse. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the soak helps!

[Sasha]

I didn't think anything when Fiona slept in her water bowl until I took her in and she was real sick. Now watching Shrek and his two new friends I notice the water bowl is only a stepping stone to the rest of the tank. I never see them in it, unless they are sticking their butt in it!

Go with your gut, if you think their is something wrong take him to the vet. It's better to be safe than sorry and if the store is going to pay for the visit, that's more of a reason to do so!

[HerpDerp]

Oh my god I'm so mad right now. I just called the pet store and told them what was going on and the first thing I was told is that "oh well white's tree frogs are pretty lethargic". And then she went on to tell me "well they sleep during the day and he was like that when he was here too". And then when I said I thought he was impacted she was like "well they poop in their water sometimes so you need to look in there and maybe he pooped and you just didn't see it". And THEN when I mentioned the vet I was told that vets can't do anything for frogs because they're "not like other pets". She acted like I was stupid for thinking a vet could help. She said all they could do was take the frog back and put him in the same tank he was in and just watch him. So I told her I would just keep him and see how he acts for the next week (since I have a 15 day guarantee). I'm just so mad that they wont do anything about it.

[HerpDerp]

So I got a chance to take some pictures of my frog today. I'm still pretty annoyed about petco blowing me off the way they did. I'm really hoping that he's just adjusting and will start acting normally soon. So maybe you guys can take a look and tell me if he at least looks healthy? And should I still be feeding him even though he hasn't pooped or should I hold off on that for a bit? Thanks so much for all the replies I have gotten already

[CamilleElise]

Well, his nice, white belly is a good sign. And to me he doesn't appear bloated. My Daphne girl used to like to be that color a lot, some frogs just prefer darker colors, Dexter is never anything but brown, he just likes being brown... I think give the frog more time to settle in, moves are really stressful for them. Keep observing closely, and go with your gut instinct.

I know my vet has felt the belly of my frogs to check for impaction before, looking for a firm mass, not just the firmness normal organs would cause. You could perhaps consider this, if you feel comfortable. Of course you'd have to be gentle. Anything super hard would be a red flag something wasn't right.

[HerpDerp]

Thank you so much. This actually puts my mind at ease quite a bit. I actually have felt his belly and he really doesn't like me touching it at all but that could just be him not liking my finger there. But I haven't felt anything at all. I'll try feeding night crawlers tonight. He hasn't shown much interest in them but I know they're better than crickets. I'll keep a really close eye on him and inspect the tank really well to see if he's pooped.

[CamilleElise]

Mine don't love their belly touched either, so my vet had to hang onto the little wiggly ones with a firm (but not overly harsh) grasp just to be able to probe their little tummies better. It does stress them out to do this, but if you are seriously concerned about impact, this is an option. What type of substrate was he on at the store you got him from? Personally, I find most pet stores don't have great care of their creatures, and put them in cages way too small. I don't think my frogs poop daily, though I couldn't tell you for sure what their natural poop cycle is. I don't find 7 poops daily though, granted they could be well-hidden and sometimes disintegrate into the water dish (ewww, I know, but true). If it's financially feasible, you could consider a vet checkup on your own. My vet is an exotic animal vet, and I believe his basic checkup fee is only $30 or $35, which is reasonable for me on my budget, but I know is a stretch for many people as that amount can pay for quite a bit elsewhere. You might just call around and inquire what basic fees are. I always tend to ask if the vet is experience specifically with tree frogs or Whites tree frogs. I know once when I lived in another stated, I found a vet in my (relatively) small hometown, that had previously been the caretaker, at a well-known zoo, for the amphibian exhibit, including several Whites. His rates were very reasonable (though more than I pay my current vet) and he saved a couple of my frogs from (almost) certain death, helping them go on to live long, happy, healthy lives.

[HerpDerp]

Well as far as I know there aren't any vets anywhere near me that actually know what they're doing when it comes to anything more than your basic mammalian type pets. Finding an avian vet has proven impossible for me (which is beyond frustrating). I had assumed the vet that petco used dealt with amphibians but the not so helpful associate I spoke with today informed me otherwise. They had that infamous impaction inducing moss in the tank with him and they were feeding him those massive crickets (which I'm convinced are just too big for him). But here's the good new! He Pooped tonight! It really wasn't a lot but it's something! And I can't believe I'm asking this, but what is normal white's tree frog poop supposed to look like? My only experience is with pacman poop which is HUGE and long. My white's poop was pretty small and wasn't watery but did look a bit... wet lol. But then again, with the amount of water he's been soaking up it could be understandable!

[CamilleElise]

I'm sorry to hear no vet is available nearby.

However, that is great news about your frog! Does Froggy have a name yet? I'm glad he went poo! It varies for White's but generally my frogs make bigger ones (though they are sometimes smaller than normal) and they are usually a solid mass, that yes, does look a bit wet. They will dry out pretty quickly so generally anything made the night before if I find it the next day is dry by the time I clear it out. It sounds pretty normal for a Whites poo.

Not a fun picture because it's of poo, but if it looked something like this, except wet, that's normal (these ones are dried out) Recent image by whitie2 on Photobucket

If Whites ever start making completely watery poo with no form to it, be worried, that's not normal. But, keep in mind that if they poo in their water dish, sometimes the water will disintegrate the poo by the time you find it in the morning, so don't stress if that happens.

[Sasha]

You're frog looks like a nice healthy chunky frog! There is no redness to it's belly or anything that is a good sign. I think he is just taking his time getting adjusted. One of the frogs that I just bought from Petco is the same color but he's eating and pooping and even learning to croak!

Was the person you spoke to at the store the same person that sold you the frog? Maybe it's just a matter of this person just not knowing anything. When I exchanged one of my first frogs the sales person was going to put my new frog in a plastic bag and I had to correct her and tell her to give me a small box. They assured me that the other frog was going to be looked after, they have a vet that comes once a week and will check on it. I was worried about that until I found my vet and he told me that he used to be one of those vets.

I'm sorry that your first experience with White's hasn't been so good. They really are great frogs, with lots of spunk and personality (when they are healthy).

[DonLisk]

Your Whites Tree Frog looks nice and healthy in the photos.

As for sleeping in the water dish, they will often use the dish to re-hydrate and after his time at the pet store he probably was glad to have a clean water dish that he felt comfortable using. My WTFs would soak at night and when over soaked, causes the frog to look bloated due to taking in too much water. just stand clear if he pees :-)

Excessive soaking can be from many things but if your humidity low end is about 50 percent or higher then your tanks humidity is fine. Temps at night should be around 68 to 72 and day tamps of about 78 to 80 degrees.
As for why they would soak excessively, lack of humidity, trying to loosen a shed, trying to get something off such as mites, or just got lazy and fell asleep there are some reasons that come to mind.

To reduce the chance of impaction in the future, use the cricket bowl method for feeding, which helps with the reduction of loose crickets in the enclosure, allows for monitoring how much and often they eat, and since they are not the most accurate at hitting a cricket when diving for them, reduces the chance of them eating the substrate often.

As for poop, nothing similar to a Pacman's poop. Usually like the size of a piece of Sugar Smacks Cereal (but twice as lone) for an adult WTF. They will drop them in the water dish or below where they sleep most of the time.

Again, nice looking frog.

Don

[HerpDerp]

Thanks for the poo picture! It's a bit bigger than what he had but it definitely looks normal! And I named him Glurmo (mega brownie points if anyone gets the reference!).

And yeah, they put him in a bag to go home in . I don't understand why they would do that. I didn't say anything because I live a couple miles away from the petstore and I wanted to get him out of there ASAP. The girl that sold him to me was new there and she's the one that let slip that his tank mate had died a couple weeks before that. So probably she was just being a friendly employee and actually cared, unlike the one that I talked to on the phone. She even told me she has a pixi frog and he just sits around and does nothing so it's normal for my white's to act that way... It took all my will power not to laugh at her when she said that. Obviously a bull frog and a tree frog are going to have completely different habits. I've decided when I get a second white's I'm going to go through an online breeder. I don't think I can hold my tongue if I have to deal with this again!

And aside from all that confusion I really do love my white's! Right before he strikes at crickets his feet twitch... so entertaining to watch LOL

[Sasha]

I love the name! I'll be honest, I didn't get the reference but I looked it up and I think it's perfect! He sounds like he's doing pretty good now.

You mentioned earlier that you were going to feed him nightcrawlers, how'd that go? I fed mine some red wigglers the other night it was hilarious. Olive ate his right out of the bowl on his first strike, Skitter is very spoiled and she had to be tong fed, Shrek (the biggest of them all) had a real hard time getting it out of the bowl and then refused to eat it off the tongs. She looked so defeated! The two sat there though for a good half hour getting them down. Scared me at first but they got it.

[HerpDerp]

He doesn't really seem that interested in night crawlers right now. I'm going to try again tonight. I also got him some bigger crickets today so maybe he can actually taste them when he eats! I never really had luck with red wigglers when I had my pacman frog. He would eat them sometimes but I don't think he liked how long and skinny they were because he had to "slurp" them up like spaghetti LOL. I cut up the night crawlers for Glurmo. He will twitch a bit but then decides he doesn't want it. I put him in a tupperware container in the enclosure to feed him and one of the worm pieces wiggled against his food and he like jumped back haha. I don't think he understands that it's food!