Hello everyone. This is my first thread and I would really like some advice.
I have a Whites Tree Frog (Kevin, about two inches in length) that I bought from Petco and a Baja California Tree Frog (Trevor, about an inch and a half in length) that I caught in the wild. They live together in a 10 gallon tank that gets misted 3 or 4 times a day. I have only had Kevin for about 3 weeks and he had no other issues until now. Him and Trevor sort of bonded and they sleep on the same leaf together during the day.
I noticed earlier this afternoon when I got back from school that Kevin was sitting in the corner of the tank looking very lethargic and bloated. I went and washed my hands and picked him up a bit too make sure he was alive. His breathing was weird and not steady. I tried feeding him and he wouldn't eat. I moved him into the water dish and looked up the symptoms on Google. After finding out that it was possibly a bacterial edema, I warmed up a little container with water and placed him in it. After about 10 minutes he seemed to feel better. He was hopping around a bit and swimming in the water. He looked quite happy and I figured he was going to be okay. I left him in the container for about an hour, ate dinner and came back to find him on his back, unable to move his arms at all. They were crossed across his chest and he can barely sit back up. I tried sitting him back up, but he keeps ending up on his back.
I am very worried about my little froggy. :[
Sorry your frog is ill.
Please follow these three steps to ensure your frog gets the attention it needs!
1)
FF members that are experienced enough to help you need additional information asap . Please cut, paste and answer the following questions:
Please answer one additional question that is not there--- was your frog quarantined , if so how long?
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html
2)
If you do not have a herp vet nearby ( able to care for frogs ) here is D Frye’s contact information. And a list of common “medicine cabinet” supplies that should always be kept on-hand when keeping frogs. Keeping these things on-hand will prevent any waiting period for the need to start a common treatment for a common problem such as parasites or infection.
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-prepared.html
If you email him, he will need the photos and detailed information regarding eating, pooping, housing. He will get back to you promptly.
3)
Additional first-aid information:
Frog Forum - Basic Frog First Aid
Treating him promptly is very important. Like many animals, the outward signs of illness ( commonly, those that are due to ongoing stress in the enclosure) are not obvious until they are in trouble. One needs to mindful; making mental observations of all patterns of behavior ie eating and pooping. Try to recall what you may have observed recently.
I'm hoping this will help move things along for you !!!!
Lynn
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
Introducing a wild-caught frog to a captive bred frog is always dangerous, because they can carry diseases (such as Chytrid and Redleg).
Answer the questions from Trouble in the Enclosure like Lynn said. But a trip to the vet is your best call right now.
UPDATE: Shortly after posting this thread, Kevin passed away. :[
My boyfriend and I are burying him later.
what kind of water did u use?
i had a white's treefrog and my parents looked after it once but they put distilled water in his cage and he bloated up and died
u cannot use distilled water with frogs
So Sorry for your loss
It is never recommended and often toxic to co-habitate different types of frogs in one terrarium. I would keep them in seperate homes to reduce any toxins from one getting the other sick. This might have been what happened. Just because the get along doesnt mean they are safe to be together. Just to keep in mind if you get another frog of a different time.
I'm going through the same thing. Look for my post titled "frustrated". Please take your frog to a vet and have it looked at. I was hesitant to do so because one day she was lethargic and not herself and the next she was fine. Eventually she started "convulsing". The vet did a thorough exam and she does have a bacterial infection along with pinworms and roundworms. She needs to be on antibiotics for the next 10 days. It's a slow healing process but she's going to be okay. The sooner you get your frog checked out the less it will suffer and the sooner it will get better.
I know you go through the whole "it's only a FROG" I have to take it a vet? But in deciding to keep them as pets it's our responsibility to look out for their well being. They are not "disposable" pets like fish (although I've recently heard of people taking their fish to the vet).
The frog died =( I was just commenting that another frog joins the family not to mix them in the same home =/
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
So sorry for your loss, but golden rule NEVER house different species of frogs together. Ever! You were lucky before that is all. Whites have very sensitive skin they can't be with others like that. Not to mention a wild one. Please keep the wild frogs in the wild.
My 15 year old White's Tree Frog Hetfield (RIP 1996-June 4, 2012) and my little girl Lucy
The two frogs were fine together. I found out today after taking him to the vet that he had swallowed some of the coconut fiber in the tank. I have now taken out the substrate and am looking for something else to put on the bottom of the tank so the same thing doesn't happen to Trevor.
Any suggestions?
Feed outside the tank with no substrate. Different species of frogs are not fine together, different frogs are toxic to each other. Good luck
My 15 year old White's Tree Frog Hetfield (RIP 1996-June 4, 2012) and my little girl Lucy
I'm so sorry for your loss, I know it's hard to lose a pet.
As already mentioned, never mix species. Now you know, and never do it again.
As for the substrate, many use paper towels (unscented, no print, plain papertowels). This is what I use in my red-eye's enclosure, and I change them twice weekly.
For my white's, I use a layer of hydro-balls, screen, 2" coco fiber (the very fine coco fiber), and atop that live oak leaf litter that can be purchased from josh's frogs Josh's Frogs - Largest online herps feeders and reptile supplies store
Some feed in separate containers, but I find this stresses the frog out.
I use a small glass bowl for my red-eye and I hand feed my white's (I wear gloves because I hate crickets and worms)
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
It wasn't the coconut fiber. Coco fiber is safe for them to ingest because if doesn't cause blockages and is easily passed if some is ingested. Each frog and toad species secrete their own toxins that can make other species sick or be fatal. He would have had to ingest quite a large amount of coco fiber to cause an impaction. Most impaction last for quite a while and can be treated long before it becomes an issue to the point of death.
Now their are sometimes rocks, pieces of plastic, sticks, seeds, and other objects that sometimes can be found within the coco fiber that can and will cause an impaction if eaten. When was the last time he had pooped prior to him becoming ill?
I'd like to second Grif in his/her opinion that the coco fiber is not the culprit. Constipation/impaction would not result in such a quick and dramatic death. It would happen very slowly over the course of two or more weeks in most cases.
It sounds to me, based on the photos and description, like your frog died from exposure to some kind of toxin.
Well, then maybe you guys would like to tell my vet that she was wrong?
Sorry to say, but I trust my vet a bit more then some people on a forum.
Distilled water is the best and only water you should mist your frogs with it is completely chemical and sediment free and the process of distillation is evaporation, then condensation the same as rain. Water sources within the enclosure should be filled with spring water/ or chlorine-sediment filtered tap water.
Then why bother coming here for advice if you aren't going to believe it... also having 2 frogs in a 10 gallon is too small. Rule of thumb 1 frog per 10 gallons. But since you don't trust any of us keep doing what you are and you can start a lil frog graveyard in your backyard.
and yes most of us wouldn't have issues telling people when they are wrong... if it means saving another frog ...HINT HINT!
No need to get heated now. Let's be calm and polite, Rae. It is Frolic's right to take or leave the advice received here.
I've read through the whole thread and I too doubt that the coconut fiber was the cause of death - it's common for frogs to have some of their substrate in their gut at any given time because they often get some in their mouths when feeding.
It is a huge no-no to put 2 different species of frog together, especially when they come from opposite sides of the world. Both of the frogs you had produce their own nasty skin secretions, which at best can irritate other species, at worst they could stress them into becoming ill and dying.
Then there is the possibility of parasites being passed from one to the other (remember that since these frogs are from opposite sides of the world, you're talking about giving parasites to a frog that never had to deal with that type of parasite before).
The same goes for diseases like Ranavirus and Chytrid fungus. Healthy frogs can carry diseases and never suffer from the disease, but they can pass it on to frogs that have never encountered that disease or strain of disease before.
I know it's difficult to accept that a decision we made has led to the death of our pet, but take heart from the fact that you won't make that same mistake in the future.
Founder of Frogforum.net (2008) and Caudata.org (2001)
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