Frustrated

[Sasha]

This frog is making me crazy! These are a few pictures I just took of Fiona frog:


To me she looks absolutely beautiful and fine. Walks normal, eats normal, most of the time her color is a pretty green like this. Here is what has been going on, I'll start with yesterday. Last night she was sitting on her substrate with her back legs stretched straight out. I tried to pick her up and she let out a squeak telling me to go away. When I touched her she tucked her legs back up under her belly but stayed on the substrate. The humidity at the time was about 65%, temp was 77. I gave it a mist and went to bed. When I woke up this morning she was soaking in her water dish. I kept an eye on her and all of the sudden she put her nose in the water and then flipped over and freaked out trying to right herself. Right away I reached in and pulled her out and put her in her empty food bowl. When I picked her up she was really soggy feeling like she was sitting in the water for a long time. She eventually calmed down and went to sleep. I left the house and came back 4 hours later and found her laying on her back in the substrate with her legs back legs straight out and her front legs curled by her chest. I picked her up and her legs were stiff. This time I put her in a small critter keeper. After about 5 minutes she righted herself. I tried to give her a warm Pedilyte bath as I got the larger critter keeper ready for her. She did not like it and would not sit in the water. completely freaked out because she couldn't climb the plastic walls and eventually ended up on her back again in the water and couldn't right herself. Right away I dumped the water and put her in the larger keeper which is when I took these pictures.

This has happened one time before...I checked on her and she was sitting on the bottom of a log in the middle of her tank. About 10 min later I heard this screech and saw her laying in the front of the tank stretched out stiff. Again right after this happened she was walking around normal, jumping, eating etc.

There is poop in the tank but I can't be sure if it's hers or Shreks. Sometimes she seems bloated but it's after she's been soaking in her water for awhile. I dust their crickets at each feeding with calcium, and once a week using Repti-vite. I was feeding them every other day about 6 crickets for each but have started feeding every day about 3 crickets each. I was worried that maybe she somehow has a calcium deficiency.

The tank is a 12x12x18-I have an 18x18x24 coming next week because they love climbing and trying to get out of the tank they are in now.
The temp is around 80-85 during the day and 72-76 at night.
Humidity varies between 60%-80%.
During the day I have a 5.0 UVB light and at night I have a 40 watt red bulb that I only turn on to see them.
Substrate is eco-earth
Plants are plastic. I had a small pothos and a bamboo but noticed that she wasn't acting weird until I put them in, so I removed them.
Her tank mate Shrek is smaller than her. Although can be a little more hyper than her at times.

I'm sorry I couldn't get a picture of her legs when it happened. I was more focused on helping her than taking pictures. If it happens again I will get them and post them.

I'm just stumped and I really love that little frog. Even more now that I see she has a little heart on her side. Any ideas as to what is going on?

[Sasha]

Already have an update. She just did a 360 in her tank and put her head down to the ground, her stomach looks like it's going to explode. Then I checked her butt and she's in the process of POOPING! So that means she's not impacted right? Now to figure out what causes the stiff legs.

[Pactolus]

I hope she's okay. I've heard warn baths with a tiny bit of honey mixed in the water help with constipation.

[Sasha]

We actually had a pretty rough weekend. She would look okay sitting in her tank but then sit with her snout to the ground like she did when she was pooping but then she would flip over and convulse. I put a very small bowl in her tank with some honey water in it I didn't want to soak her because she kept having seizures and I was afraid she was going to drown herself. I woke up this morning and she is actually sitting in it right now. I have pictures of her seizures that I will eventually post. It's just hard to look at right now. I see her in different parts of her tank but I don't actually see her walk there. Last night I saw her try to walk into her water bowl and she was very twitchy. The vet opens at 8 am so I am going to call and see if I can get her an appointment today so we can get to the bottom of this.

I just feel real bad because she had been acting funny for a few weeks now but she was getting better. I never expected this to happen. I just hope it's not to late for her.

[justpeachy]

I'm sorry how fustrating when you don't know whats wrong and how to fix it. I hope she's okay she sure is cute

[Lyndsaygirl123]

I'm so sorry. Good luck at the vet! I hope you are able to get an appointment soon.

Because of the bloating and convulsions, it sounds to me like it may be either Red Leg (Type of bacterial infection) or Dropsy. Both are treatable, but unfortunately not always curable. The vet will probably give you come antibiotics to soak her in. Separate her from your other frogs and put her in a small quarantine tank with just a paper towel substrate and a little hide. Cover the outside of the of her quarantine tank in paper to help keep her stress level down. Good luck! Hope she pulls through.

[Heatheranne]

Did she poop ok for you? How is her abdomen? Is she still bloated? Do you dechlorinate your water? Are her belly or legs pink or red?

It could be too much calcium if you use it every day. Try every other day.

She may need blood work to check her electrolytes. Ask your vet for a BMP (basic metabolic panel) and a CBC (complete blood count). This will be helpful in determining electrolytes vs. infection.

Flipping over is a sign of stress, pain, or she could be flipping die to tremors/seizures.

You are doing the right thing by taking her to a vet.

If her belly is still bloated don't feed her for a day or two and continue warm water soaks and or honey soaks. If the vet checks her blood work she'll know if she needs the pedialyte or if her electrolytes need diluted with just warm water soaks.

I hope your frog will be ok. I'll keep an eye out to see how she's doing. Good luck!

[Sasha]

Thanks everyone. Today was exhausting. The first vet I called was very near to my house and work and when I brought her in he told me that he didn't treat frogs! Would have been nice to know before I stressed her out. The second vet was great! He spent a full hour with us, I don't even get that for my cats.

I actually remembered to bring her poop from Saturday and Shrek's from this morning. When he tested the samples he found Ringworms AND Pinworms. He showed me in the microscope there were worms everywhere. She has some muscle weakness but because she's so small (3.6 grams) he didn't want to draw more blood from her her check her calcium levels. He said though that just from the visual exam she shows signs of calcium deficiency. From the blood that he was able to test, her white blood cells were high, so there is an infection somewhere. She wasn't bloated today even after spending the day in her water dish.

He gave her Panacur and Strongid in his office for the worms. She immediately perked up and climbed around the tank. I was also given some to give to Shrek. He also gave me Flagyl and a calcium syrup to give her for the next 10 days. Then he wants to see her again for another round of deworming and to re-evaluate things.

The hard part is giving her the medicine orally. My boyfriend is really squeamish about touching the frogs so I'm hoping he can suck it up and help me for the next 10 days!

[GrifTheGreat]

It isn't fun giving them the medicine, but it works! Tell your boyfriend to suck it up and help you! It is much easier to force feed with to people - one to hold the frog steady and one to administer the medication. Best of luck. I hope your little ones feel better soon! Keep us posted.

[Sasha]

Grif, he's a real trouper! He'd do anything for me! Fiona looks real good today. When I put her back in her tank last night she was sitting on a low leaf of her favorite plant, this morning she moved up a few leafs. She didn't want to eat last night. I'll try again tonight.

[Heatheranne]

That's awesome!!! I'm so glad you took her .

[GrifTheGreat]

Yeah, the Flagyl kicks in fast. She should start perking up over the next few days. Just be sure to follow the vet's instructions and finish the whole round of medication. You will probably want to do a thorough cleaning and sterilize everything so she doesn't get re-infected. Glad to hear she is doing better! Keep us posted.

[Sasha]

Yeah, the Flagyl kicks in fast. She should start perking up over the next few days. Just be sure to follow the vet's instructions and finish the whole round of medication. You will probably want to do a thorough cleaning and sterilize everything so she doesn't get re-infected. Glad to hear she is doing better! Keep us posted.

Luckily I am in the process of upgrading them to a bigger tank. It should be here this week. So they will have a nice clean home to move into. The vet is going to re-evaluate her in 10 days and give her a second dose of the Panacur/Strongid mix and also give me another dose for Shrek. I suppose I should wait until then to move them in the new tank just to be safe.

[Sasha]

Update on Fiona. I came home and found her on her back but not stiff. She was kinda lethargic and I gave her her calcium and Flagyl. At first she was jumping around the tank trying to climb the walls but was having problems sticking. Eventually she sat in her water and then climbed right up to her sleep spot and took a nap next to Shrek (which she hasn't done in awhile). A few hours later she woke up to eat we tong fed her but she was only able to get 2. Now she is jumping around her tank again trying to climb the walls again but only gets up so far before she falls. She seems happy, she falls on her back but is able to flip right over and do it again. I'm hoping that it's going to get a little easier to give her the meds. I get real nervous and shaky afraid she is either going to jump or I'm going to squeeze her too hard. She seems to have an overbite so wedging something in her mouth is tricky but we get it done.