Please Help! Really Concerned!

[lumpbump]

You guys are arguing just as much as I am, all I am saying is that I am taking the advice into consideration but no one seems to register the part where I said I AM OK WITH MY CHOICES. I was looking for help on what is wrong with him and got it, the other things are none of your concern.

They aren't the one with the sick frog, that is you. You need to stop being self serving/ righteous and realize your not the expert and your telling them you will consider somethings they say to do is the wrong thing to do. Its easy for me to see they have far more experience than you and continue to offer you help and advice even with you being the way you are. Its sad to see these guys trying to help YOUR sick frog and YOUR too stubborn to accept that maybe YOU are wrong and You need to change. All the while innocent animals suffer not YOU.
Shame on YOU!

[Bruce]

Years of experience and the shared experience of many more will say your friends frogs will be sick or dead within 3-5 years, at best. Who are you to say we're wrong when you did not know the simple knowledge that your frog needs calcium supplements?

[sarahanita]

I'm not being self righteous! I am simply trying to get the point across that I get what you guys are saying, but I don't feel it needs to change. There is no way for you to know what the water in my city is like. Have you had frogs and used the water from THIS city and had bad things happen? No. So how can you say 100% without a doubt that I am "poisoning my frog" which is just stupid since the water is fine for all my other reptiles. I know they have more experience, as do the people I talk to here.

Also my friends frogs are already over 5 years old so you're point is invalid Bruce. And for your information I did know they needed calcium supplements I just believed he was receiving enough because of the food choice, I was wrong in that and now I am changing it. See? I'm not just getting advice and not listening to it. I am also giving him the soaks that were recommended. The moss is none of anyone's concern nor is the water I use.

[Bruce]

So as soon as it become a problem that's when you fix it? Sounds like only your frog is suffering from you cutting corners

And I know your water isn't good because ALL (note the word ALL) cities use CHLORINE to sanitize WATER! No not say my point is invalid when you know I'm correct. Please, before making claims, research and educate yourself.

It is people like you that give herps and herp owners bad reputations. Silly, uneducated people buying exotic animals because you think they'e cool. Then when the animal dies so fast due to improper care or a deadly animal kills someone due to stupidity, it casts a bad shadow on EVERYONE.

[sarahanita]

You know nothing about me, or my history with keeping animals. It is very offense to me for you to say I give herp owners a bad name when I have more animals than you know about who have perfect care. You are simply too ignorant to listen to the evidence being placed before you to accept that your opinion may not be the be all and end all that everyone should follow. I do not cut corners with my pets, nor am I one of the irresponsible nit wits who buys exotic animals because they are cool and treats them like **** until they slowly suffer and die. Get off your high horse please and accept that someone has a different opinion than yours and is choosing to follow a different path that may not end up the same way your own experiences have ended up. I live in a city where the water is very well known for being fantastic with very low levels of chlorine or anything else. I am not uneducated although I am still learning and I think you are being extremely rude and giving the members of this forum a bad name by being extremely agressive.

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm not being self righteous! I am simply trying to get the point across that I get what you guys are saying, but I don't feel it needs to change. There is no way for you to know what the water in my city is like. Have you had frogs and used the water from THIS city and had bad things happen? No. So how can you say 100% without a doubt that I am "poisoning my frog" which is just stupid since the water is fine for all my other reptiles. I know they have more experience, as do the people I talk to here.

Also my friends frogs are already over 5 years old so you're point is invalid Bruce. And for your information I did know they needed calcium supplements I just believed he was receiving enough because of the food choice, I was wrong in that and now I am changing it. See? I'm not just getting advice and not listening to it. I am also giving him the soaks that were recommended. The moss is none of anyone's concern nor is tbd water I use.

I'm done. I've tried and you don't even understand simple reasoning. Chlorine is toxic to frogs as well as chlorimines which are in city water. These chemicals that make our water safe also make amphibians water sources toxic. Toxing Out Syndrome will begin to sit in after a period of exposure.

Your frog is sick and you are willing to take chances with your frog's life rather than taking all necessary precautions to assist in its recovery. You were and are not ready to care for one of these animals and if you persist in refusing to use any treatments or even take precautions it will die. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

Good luck.

[Bruce]

I've done nothing but try and help your frog, as everyone here had done. But to not follow basic care has led me to those assumptions.

I'm done debating, if you truly feel that your tap water is safe, and your frog won't become impacted after ingesting long strands of moss, so be it. I hope for your animals sake that everyone on this forum, including myself, is wrong.

[sarahanita]

Then explain to me how so many others have never had issues with the water? It simply doesn't make sense!

[lumpbump]

Unsubscribed. Such a waste.

[sarahanita]

Was it so hard to just let it be that I believe the water is safe and leave it at that? Also he isn't eating the moss, when he grows and becomes a good eater I will remove the moss, until then there is no risk. You guys are making it sound like I'm just bashing down everything you say to me. The only things I am not following advice on are removing the moss and changing the water. I am confident they are not what is causing the issue so it should have just been dropped and moved on from the beginning.

[Bruce]

Your water may be cleaner than most cities, with lower chlorine levels. The toxins may be building up slower of that's the case. None the less, they are building.

Good luck with your frog.

[NatureLady]

There is no way for you to know what the water in my city is like. Have you had frogs and used the water from THIS city and had bad things happen? No. So how can you say 100% without a doubt that I am "poisoning my frog" which is just stupid since the water is fine for all my other reptiles. I know they have more experience, as do the people I talk to here.

Sorry...random butt in...

I studied toxicology and it's effects on phibs in college.

YOU have NO IDEA what is in your city drinking water if you are going to be a jerk and say the above.
NO ONE knows what is in any drinking water until after the water is used. The water quality notices come out the next billing cycle, not a call over the phone saying that hey we found traces of poison in your drinking water today. Don't be an *** and say that these people have no idea what is in YOUR cities drinking water. NO ONE HAS A CLUE WHAT IS IN OUR WATER!!!! That is why you ALWAYS treat the water!

[sarahanita]

I'm sorry this is going to come out extremely rude, but after this argument is settled what makes you think I care about anything else people have to say about the water I use? It's settled and no one is listening to my point of the argument so I am done.

[NatureLady]

Oh don't worry dear...the comment wasn't for you.
It was for any other person reading this thread looking for answers. Many people research and never sign into forums. I would hate for this thread to give someone the wrong impression of how city water, water quality, and the safety of phibs relates.

[arielgasca420]

Well this banter was quite entertaining to read. Sarahanita, do what you feel is necessary or dont do what you feel is necessary. I too have volunteered at a pet store but i was unaware of their unorthodox methods until i came onto this forum and educated myself with a new perspective from the experiences of others. i agree that the moss will cause problems as your frog gets older and its just a matter of time before it happens. You did say that you volunteer at a pet store and their frogs are fine but they use tap water which is not good no matter what city you live in. Its just basic reptile,fish, and frog knowledge for any beginner to use a conditioner. I am skeptical of this pet store you speak of because they do not have the basic knowledge of soaks for sick frogs which is the very reason you are on this forum right now asking us for help. Right? So if this pet store is so great than why didnt they help you? You could have skipped this forum and gone straight to your pet store but you still ended up here. Why is that?

[frogsubrosa]

And why do you think no one is agreeing with your argument? You admitted yourself that the water in your city uses water with low levels of chlorine. And so, you know chlorine is present in the water, and yet you're not doing anything about it.

You might be right that the water is NOT the cause of the problem. But have you thought about the case if you are wrong? Why take the risk? A water conditioner is cheap and readily available. It will not harm your frog, and even if it doesn't solve the problem, you're playing it safe.

This whole argument is not about YOU. It's about the well-being of your frog. And if you, as the owner, are not going to do the best to provide for your frog, then there really isn't an argument is there? The life of your frog lies in your hand. All the members here can do is advise you on the care. Ultimately, you make the choices.

[sarahanita]

I came here first because this thread was posted in the middle of the night when I first noticed the issue. The next day i did go to the store to ask them because I trust their opinion. It is not a big store that i know does things wrong, its hard to explain and I don't feel like this anymore. Is there any way to delete this thread because I am really sick of hearing this stuff repeated when frankly I don't give a **** anymore...

[arielgasca420]

Thank you I am aware but as I said I am comfortable with my choice. Just because it is right for some, or even most, doesn't mean it is right for everyone. I have reptiles that people say "oh no don't keep them on sand they'll get an impaction" but I do, and they're fine. Yes the risk is there but it is a personal choice and the responsibility is on me I know. I don't feed in the enclosure and he is a picky eater anyway, the chances of him trying to eat the moss are very slim. I am done arguing the water as well since I know it is used on all the animals I own, as well as all the animals anyone I know or have ever talked to in this city.

Ok lets break this down. you understand there is a risk with using sand. so lets say something does happen because of your personal choice. how will you be a responsible pet owner if you cant afford one vet bill? you said so yourself that you cant afford to take your frog to a vet now because you are a college student. I just want you to think this through. wouldnt prevention be cheaper than taking a risk?

[arielgasca420]

I'm sorry this is going to come out extremely rude, but after this argument is settled what makes you think I care about anything else people have to say about the water I use? It's settled and no one is listening to my point of the argument so I am done.

then leave and stop responding. we dont give a rats hind quarters about you either, we only care about your frog

[sarahanita]

Unsubscribed thanks to self righteous *******s who think they know everything and wont stop harassing me.