Please Help! Really Concerned!

[sarahanita]

I tried the Samurai Japan pacman frog food that I saw on this forum and it is going well for my fantasy frog however I think I made it a bit too wet for my baby albino. I had to force feed him by carefully prying open his mouth and sticking it in since it has been so long since he ate. However I think I made it a bit too wet for him and it kind of stuck to the roof of his mouth. Now (2 days later) I noticed there was lots of dirt in his mouth so I opened it again and got it out with a qtip gently, could have been dirt and the pacman food. I am worried because he seems very lethargic and kind of half dead. Is there anything I can do to make him feel better?

[morgan]

Warm soak in chin deep water.

1st response for many surprise reptile ailments... Warm soak.

[sarahanita]

I'm not sure if that will do anything since he's just kind of chill, he's always been chill but this is a bit much. Only way I can get him to move is to flip him over and he flips himself back. He is also holding his mouth open a tiny bit I think? I can see his lip I never noticed so I'm not sure if it's open or not. Still think a soak?

[sarahanita]

He was soaking, looked like he was drinking, he did it again but more aggressive an I got worried so I picked him up, and I'm right he won't close his mouth all the way. If I touch his chin it'll close, and his jaw is working since he bit me, any help please I'm worried!

[IvoryReptiles]

Do you supplement? Do you give it vitamins & calcium? The slack jaw may be due to a lack of calcium or it may be that his mouth is irritated.
You asked for advice and when you got some, you argued it........put a drop of honey in the water for soaking, it will give the frog a bit of energy. The remedy for too wet Samurai food would be to adjust the ratio of powder to water.....or simply add a little powder to it to even out the texture. Simple solution.
Have you tried feeding earthworms?

[sarahanita]

I didn't argue it, I was asking if they still thought a soak could help given more information, I did give him a soak. I don't supplement calcium because I feed butterworms because they are all I can get in the area. I do a multivitamin powder once a week as well. I obviously know to use less water next time.

[Ra]

Well, if its that young and hasnt eaten "in so long" and you only feed them butter worms and a multivitamin once a week, there are a few strong possibilities here. For one, it probably has a series of very serious nutritional maladies. Frogs that age need to eat every day or two, and need a calcium supplement every other feeding to promote all that bone growth going on. A droopy jaw is a sign of metabolic bone disease.
You also may have injured its jaw trying to force feed it. how did you pry its mouth open? Ive had to force feed babies, and the response to me sticking the corner of a playing card between their lips was that they opened their mouths rather than having to pry anything. Also, a nutritional malady may have caused the jaw bones and muscles to be weakened, thus furthering the possibility of injury where a healthy frog would have been fine.
Having sticky food stuck in its mouth for two days probably didnt help the situation. But, a healthy frog should still have been able to swallow it as Ive fed sticky pacman food to my frogs several times.
Looking at the picture, the shape of the mouth appears injured...what did you pry its mouth open with?

You cant get nightcrawlers in Canada?

Pacman food has worked great for my frogs from the get go.

[sarahanita]

I offer him food everyday the SUPPLEMENT is once a week, I don't do calcium because Butterworms are high in calcium already. I used a credit card to gently get his mouth open, I was very careful with him and did the same with two other frogs who are fine.

[sarahanita]

Also what makes you think injured in the shape? Nothing seems out of shape compared to before this happened, I can provide pictures if you want, it just seems open a bit :S

[morgan]

You flip him over to make him move.

You've pried his mouth open numerous times.

At this point, just leave him alone. Probably stressed to the point of shock.

[sarahanita]

I flipped him over to get a look at his stomach for signs of impaction. "Pry" was a poor choice of words, I am very gentle when doing so, and when I was getting the dirt etc. out of his mouth he was opening it willingly himself.
I come to this forum for help and advice but I feel like I'm simply being attacked by everyone replying here except the first reply!

[Bruce]

Butterworms are high in calcium, but these frogs eat other frogs in the wild, and gettin a lot more calcium from their bones, far more than they'd get from butterworms. These frogs have an unusually high calcium need. Vitamin supplements are good once a week, so you're on the right track there, but this does look like MBD to me.

[sarahanita]

If it is MBD is there anything I can do? Also do I still supplement vitamins and calcium with the pacman frog food?

[Bruce]

The pacman food has everything they need in it. I use repashy calcium plus. It's a calcium and vitamin supplement in one and is in low doses for everyday use or every other day use. I use this formula do I don't miss a day or accidentally give too much and tox them out.

As for treating MBD, I honestly don't know... I know they make emergency high dose liquid calcium, I'm not sure if that's the same thing reptiboost is. You could try that. At this frogs young age though, if he does pull through his growth my be stunted or possibly some jaw issues. I'll do some research for you on treating MBD.

[Bruce]

Would you happen to know if his back legs are swollen or are weak?

[sarahanita]

They look like they always have since I got him, Normal although they don't tuck under quite as much as most frogs. Here is a picture
Wasabi on MacBook Pro 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Bruce]

I think this could be MBD. You've said earlier he seems lethargic/having troubles moving, no calcium supplements (don't blame yourself, I can see where you were coming from w the butterworms), not eating, and the back legs from that last pic seem a bit off to me.

I want someone like griff to chime on though and give his two cents, but I would say this is MBD.

What are your enclosure conditions? How big is the tank, day/night temps/humidity, what kind of substrate and how deep is it, are you treating his water with reptisafe or something similar?

[sarahanita]

He currently lives in a small breeder box since he is small, it is a lot of space for him. Substrate is about an inch and a half thick and it is coconut husk mixed with a little peat moss. day temps are low 80s, night temps are mid 70s, humidity remains around 70-80%. I do not treat the water because I know of others with pacman frogs who keep them with the water from this city with no issues and have for years.
Do you think I should try feeding him a small ball of food with extra calcium mixed in it?

[Bruce]

First off, make sure your peat moss is 100% fertilizer free, that could be the issue. I know a lot I members here, including myself, swear by Eco earth and use this as their substrate.

Also, start treating his water. The chlorine in city water and even some metals from well tap water can cause your frog to tox out. Your friends frogs may be ok but all frogs are different, and most will suffer. A good brand to use is reptisafe. It also adds small amounts of calcium and other rehydrating electrolytes to the water as well as removing chlorine and trace metals.

Can you post a picture of the enclosure?

[sarahanita]

The person who doesn't treat the water is the owner of a pet store who has had many frogs with no issue, but I will look into a conditioner. Here is a picture of the enclosure, I also have this water additive I'm wondering if you think giving him a bath with a bit of this might help?