Chytrid: Don't let anyone tell you it's too late.

[Flick]

I've had a pretty terrible time of it lately...
I've lost two little froggies in two weeks. The first was an accident, one little morph leapt too hard from one branch to the other and smacked his head on the glass side of the tank. (This is what I assumed happened as I found him on the bottom of the tank, bruised head and stretched out like he was still mid-leap). The second one was a little fellow who had always been very slim.

The symptoms I noticed:
Uncoordinated
Lethargy
Colour loss
Uneven pigmentation
Unresponsive
Refusal to eat
Glassy eyes
And last, a tiny lime green spot.

Now I had no idea why he was sick and unfortunately during the waiting process for the swabs sent away to the lab, he passed away.

The swabs came back negative for everything and I decided it was just poor care on my part and cleaned out his cage to start over.

It wasn't until his room-mate Bubba started to get ill with the same symptoms that I thought there might be something else going on. As Bubba began showing the same symptoms, I waited for the autopsy results for Nova to come back. However she was getting more and more ill by the day and I simply couldn't wait. After much internet searching, I came to the conclusion that her symptoms matched Chytrid, late stage as she was losing control of her legs. Now every single treatment page has said that Chytrid is untreatable at the stage of paralysis. I have found this not to be the case.

Using the medication:
1ml of Lamisil (1% Terbinafine Hydrochloride) to 200mls of water. Soaked for 5 minutes every day for 10 days (I'm only up to day 5).

Now Bubba was in a very bad way when I started this medication, NO hind leg movement, NO coordination, curled fingers and toes, sloughing constantly... She still came through. I've seen so many posts saying they just had them put down, but now in my experience I can say that these symptoms do not always mean the end, at least not all of the time. Keeping in mind, Bubba was a very chubby, healthy frog who had quite a bit of weight on her when she fell ill. She had allot of stores to get her through the 10 days she didn't eat.

I just want to give hope to people like me, who don't want to see their pets die simply because they were late to identify.

I can confirm that Bubba is happy, healthy, fat and has complete use of her body now and whilst I will be continuing the treatment for another five days, she is back to herself. Don't let anyone tell you it's too late to try.

If you'd like more details as to how I treated her, I'd be happy to fill you in. Since her recovery, the lab has come back positive for Chytrid on Nova who had passed away first.

[Sanimal]

That's so wonderful that Bubba is doing much better (cute name). Such a wonderful message you got across with that story.

[Flick]

I just don't want people to give up and put down their beloved pets, just because someone says there is no hope. It is never too late to try and miracles do happen with a bit of luck

[poison]

i have to ask what made you use Lamisil?

[GrifTheGreat]

i have to ask what made you use Lamisil?

Lamisil AT diluted is the treatment for Chytrid fungus. Its a long process over 10 days, but can save your frogs life.

[Flick]

And in this case it did. Lamisil AT 1% solution from the chemist. It is considered an experimental but effective treatment and better to do something and have hope then watch her die.

[Heatheranne]

Wow! This is impressive and good to know.

[kevinpilon1]

that is awesome! nice job. how did you get ahold of the lamisil? that part confuses me.

[kimix]

The lamisil treatment was tested and vetted by Chris Rombough and Jay Bowerman at Rombough Biological in Oregon. They tested all the over the counter anti fungal meds in an attempt to find a Chytrid treatment that would be available over the counter to frog keepers.

The following is a copy and paste of the information as it was released to the frog community.

The treatment: 10 squirts of Lamisil AT 1% spray (available where athletes foot medicines are sold) in 200ml of frog safe water. . Soak your frog for 5 minutes per day for 10 days. Be sure the entire frog gets covered with the solution.

House the animals in a temporary container, such as plastic shoe boxes, cleaned and sterilized before putting back into the setup after each treatment.....remember each time.

The original housing must be completely sterilized before the treated animal is reintroduced. ALL soil, plants everything must be sterilized or your animal will just get re-infected.

Surfaces that are completely dry for at least 24 hours should be safe. Absorbent materials need additional attention.

Soil can be heated to 200 degrees for 1 hour and be safe to reuse. Be sure to not burn down the house.

Plants can be soaked in a 1 cup of bleach to 1 gallon of water solution. Some plants will not like this and will die. Most survive and tolerate this treatment.

Wood must be completely dried. It can be heated to 150 degrees for 1 hour.

Aquatic frogs, ones that live in water as well as tadpoles can also be treated. Mix a 5 squirts to 200 ML solution. Make as much at this ratio as needed so that your tadpoles or frog can live in it. The solution and frog or tadpole live in the solution full time. Completely change the solution every 3 days doing this three times (9 days).

I personally use this treatment on every WC frog I get, although I have decreased the treatment time to 5days, as it was later conformed to be just as effective.

Lamisil is NOT over the counter in Canada, it requires a prescription.

Side note: I have had alot of trouble finding Lamisil at stores in the US latley. I'm not sure if it has been discontinued or what is going on with it.

If anyone is interested in the research behind this...

Journal of Herpetological Medicine and Surgery
March 2010, Vol. 20, No. 1, pp. 24-28

Terbinafine Hydrochloride in Ethanol Effectively Clears Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis in Amphibians

Jay Bowerman, Chris Rombough, Sarah R. Weinstock, and Gretchen E. Padgett-Flohr,

[irThumper]

Sadly I just lost 2 frogs to this insidious disease. The test results came too late, as did the medication. Lamasil AT is no longer available in a pump action spray, the company has switched to aerosol cans. Crunchy Frog has some good advice on how to get around that though...
(Post #18 here) http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=34578

[Crunchy Frog]

Lisa, as nearly as I can tell, the pump spray version has not been around for over 6 years. The aerosol spray version currently is the accepted treatment within the hobby, and since the original poster posted this only 4 years ago, it's almost certain that's the version she used. If you don't want to spray it directly into the water, it's very easy to spray it into a small dish and then measure out 1mL with a syringe.

I'm only harping on this because I don't want people to think that they can't utilize this treatment with the currently available spray.

For more detailed information, please check out this discussion on the subject from Dendroboard, posted at the time that the changeover was made. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...l-aerosol.html

Here is a relevant quote taken from that thread:

Re: Lamisil AT aerosol
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok...got some quoted text.

The amount of active ingredient is the same. One of the inactive ingredients has been changed. We have used this product and seen no adverse effects to the frogs. However testing has not been carried out to the extent of the spray pump bottle. I would recommend letting the solution stand for 5 minutes before dunking the frogs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Busch
Yoncalla Frog
steve@yoncallafrog.com
Busch Custom Knives
www.yoncallafrog.com .......soon I hope
Steven Busch
Member
1100 posts
# Posted: 21 Mar 2009 18:34
Quote
We have checked out the ingredients. They are basically the same as in the spray pump version. One chemical in the spray pump was a patented chemical and now a generic version is being used. The ethanol amount appears to have increased based on the order in the ingredients list. I would let the solution stand for 5 minutes before adding the frogs to allow time for the additional ethanol to dissipate some.
As stated before we are not Veterinarians. Our biologist/herpetologist that conducted the testing and will publishing the chytrid/Lamisal results soon, is out in the field at this time and we will be verifying the new version upon his return.
We have used the new version on several species of frogs, from tadpoles to adults and seen no adverse reactions.
quot e from steve busch
so i hope this helps aaron. i prophylactically treat any tree frogs that come in and would any wild caughts that were fresh imports.
kristy

By now, people have been using the aerosol version far longer than they did the pump spray version, and everything that I've seen supports its safety and efficacy for treating Chytrid.

Chytrid is very treatable in captive frogs, as long as it's caught in time, so your other frogs should be okay, even if they did get exposed.

I'm wondering if I should do a sticky on Chytrid, since I've been doing lots of research on it, and have collated lots of info. The disease is common enough in captive collections, that I think the info is critically important for all froggers to have access to.

[DaisyMaisy]

I think a sticky on this would be great. Thanks for the information! I hope I never have to face this, but I'm glad I know more about it now.

[irThumper]

Absolutely important enough for a sticky! That would be great. No one should have to go through losing frogs to this disease. Butter Bean died without really showing any sign until just before he perished, but Pole Bean lingered, and by the time I got the info on how to use the aerosol properly it was too late Education is definitely the key.

[irThumper]

Yup. I should have specified that folks needed to scroll down to post #16 on my link to find your info.

Lisa, as nearly as I can tell, the pump spray version has not been around for over 6 years. The aerosol spray version currently is the accepted treatment within the hobby, and since the original poster posted this only 4 years ago, it's almost certain that's the version she used. If you don't want to spray it directly into the water, it's very easy to spray it into a small dish and then measure out 1mL with a syringe.

I'm only harping on this because I don't want people to think that they can't utilize this treatment with the currently available spray.

For more detailed information, please check out this discussion on the subject from Dendroboard, posted at the time that the changeover was made. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...l-aerosol.html

Here is a relevant quote taken from that thread:



By now, people have been using the aerosol version far longer than they did the pump spray version, and everything that I've seen supports its safety and efficacy for treating Chytrid.

Chytrid is very treatable in captive frogs, as long as it's caught in time, so your other frogs should be okay, even if they did get exposed.

I'm wondering if I should do a sticky on Chytrid, since I've been doing lots of research on it, and have collated lots of info. The disease is common enough in captive collections, that I think the info is critically important for all froggers to have access to.

[Snappi13]

This is inspiring news. Your right. We wouldn't give up on our kids let's not give up on our frog family.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Heatheranne]

You can also get Itraconazole from your vet. It is the vet preferred choice for Chytrid currently, through Lamisil AF is also effective.