First Pacman

[Sir Mitchel]

Hello, everyone,

I just got my first pacman frog (ornata). I've been lurking on these boards for the last week or so gathering the necessary information. My frog is roughly 2.5" in diameter, so I'm guessing he/she is 1-2 months old.

The only obstacle I've come across is that I'm having a hard time keeping the temperature in the correct range. We keep our home on the cool side (ambient 64-67F daytime), so keeping the tank temperature around 80-82F is giving me trouble. I currently am using a 5.5 gallon tank with 3/4 of the top screen covered. I have a UTH mounted on the side (back, long side) of the tank. I also have a blanket wrapped around the back and sides of the tank in an effort to retain more of the heat. I currently cannot seem to get the tank much warmer than 77-78F.

Any advice would be appreciated,

Mitch

[Wizzlewuzzle]

I had the same problem at first--cool house, couldn't keep the tank temps up. I'm using a fluker's clamp lamp now, and it works wonderfully. Just remember that you don't want to go over 50 watts on the bulb.

[Sir Mitchel]

I would like to avoid using a lamp, as I live in an already dry area. I worry that with a lamp I would have a hard time keeping the humidity where it needs to be. Could a second UTH be a solution?

[TeeRiddle]

Welcome to the forum and your first Pac!

Whenever you raise the temps humidity will drop no matter what heating method you use. Getting the temps and humidity just right can be a tricky see-saw sometimes. I'm guessing you are using a Zoo Med ReptiTherm mini - the 4 watt version (RH-7), or similar as the UTH? You could try another UTH, but the 4 watt pads don't put off much heat. Not sure it will raise temps 2 - 4 degrees.

My current terrarium is around 7 gallons and I didn't see any significant change in temps after adding this UTH (maybe bad temp gauge?).

If you do opt for a lamp I would suggest using a small dome lamp that has a dimmer switch. The dimmer switch gives you the ability to adjust the bulb output so you can dial it in perfectly. As Wizzle mentioned do not go over 50 watts. 25 - 40 watts should be more than enough for that sized tank.

I use a 25 watt black nighttime bulb hooked up to a Zoo Med HygroTherm which regulates the temps and humidity. Great device!

Hopefully someone a bit more knowledgeable than me can chime in with other suggestions as I'm still a newbie myself.

Please feel free to post a pic of your ornata, we'd love to see him/her!

[GrifTheGreat]

Welcome to Frog Forum,

You should be using a UTH appropriately sized for the tank you have. If you are set on not using a lamp you could try a second UTH. Just make sure its on the warm side of the tank near the original UTH. Make sure both are the same size.

Now you may still have to invest in a lamp if your temps don't quite reach the necessary level that's needed, but you can worry about that if having 2 UTH on the tank doesn't work. I would suggest keeping you frog in a warmer room and far away from AC vents to prevent drafts that can make the frog sick. If you must create a warmer room by closing some if the AC vents so they're only open a quarter of the way.

These are tropical frogs and MUST have tropical temps. By buying the little guy you have placed yourself uncharted of its care and must do what's necessary in order to provide the correct climate. Even if you must use a method that is less desirable to you like a heat lamp. Being in a dryer area perhaps make the soils mouthed level a bit more moist, but make sure it isn't muddy and water logged.

You've already been given correct advice on which kind of lamp to use and the correct wattage of bulbs in posts above. Any further questions feel free to ask.

[Sir Mitchel]

Since my last post I applied a second UTH, and it seems to be doing the trick. The temperature is now hovering at 82-83F. I was pretty surprised at the effectiveness of adding a second pad. I have them arranged in an "L" formation (one pad on left end, and one on the back-left of the tank). I should note, however, that the cool side of the tank is 78F. Is the cool-side temperature acceptable?

[Sir Mitchel]

As requested, here are a couple pictures:

[GrifTheGreat]

78° Is a great night time temp to hover around. Don't go lower than 75.° Your day temps are good. Humidity needs to be 80%, but mid 70s are acceptable.

[JIvoryII]

yes cool side is fine a 78 as long as its 82/83 on the warm side.. by the way thats not an ornate.. looks like a fantasy (cranwelli/cornuta ) hybrid... my be a cranwell tho.. eyes arent focusing well tonight

[GrifTheGreat]

yes cool side is fine a 78 as long as its 82/83 on the warm side.. by the way thats not an ornate.. looks like a fantasy (cranwelli/cornuta ) hybrid... my be a cranwell tho.. eyes arent focusing well tonight

My thoughts exactly. The back pattern looks connected like C. Cornuta, but the frog itself looks like pure Cranwelli. Better pics would help determine species for sure.

[Sir Mitchel]

The little guy/gal has chosen not to eat yet. Having only been a couple days, I'm not too concerned. I've done my best to minimize any stressors that may be affecting him. Temperature is now stable and correct. Still trying to find the sweet spot for humidity, but it hasn't been fluctuating drastically -- just between 70-80%. Should I try to feed daily (in the evening of course), or should I try feeding every other day until it is ready to eat? I don't want to push food too aggressively and cause unnecessary stress. From what I've gathered, these frogs can be a little picky when it comes to eating -- do I have that correct?

[JIvoryII]

what are you offering and how are you offering it to him?

[Sir Mitchel]

Crickets, via tongs.

[JIvoryII]

you may have to just drop them in front of him. try night crawler pieces from tongs tho too.. it may be the tongs that are scaring him.. all my frog are tong fed but most breeder don't so he probably doesn't know whats going on.. and if it is a fantasy frog, the few I've had would never eat from tongs or in front of me for that matter. and offer nightly

[Sir Mitchel]

I'll give that another go. I initially offered them the old fashioned way, but he didn't seem at all interested. I'll keep trying and give it time.

As far as species identification, I'll get some better pictures up in the next day or two. He was advertised as an Ornata, so I took that for what it was worth. Fortunately I didn't/don't have a preference for a particular species.

[JIvoryII]

I'm thinking more and more its a cranwell and it should eat soon now that temps are good and such... We've decided to make a vid on tong feeding soon cuz typing it out is a pain and can be interpreted many ways.. seeing gives a better grasp especially when its a frog that's not to keen on the idea of the tongs.. I'll have to see if I have any new froglets that are ready to start, I think there may be one or two just about done absorbing their tails and I have a cornuta or two that can be a pain at times about taking and eatting their worms

[TeeRiddle]

I'll give that another go. I initially offered them the old fashioned way, but he didn't seem at all interested. I'll keep trying and give it time.

As far as species identification, I'll get some better pictures up in the next day or two. He was advertised as an Ornata, so I took that for what it was worth. Fortunately I didn't/don't have a preference for a particular species.

Very beautiful frog!

I'm very glad the second UTH worked well for you. When I added one to the side of my terrarium it didn't make much of a change in temps. Now I'm wondering if the UTH, or temp gauge is working properly lol.

I also have a Fantasy (C. cranwelli X C. cornuta) and he either does not like tongs or hasn't gotten used to them yet. As JIvory mentioned, I have to drop feeders in front of him and "hide away" to watch. After 30 seconds or so he will raise up after detecting some food moving around then snatches them up when they get near. Carefully break the hind legs off crickets to make them easier for your Pac to catch (awesome tip offered by GrifTheGreat).

As for night crawlers, I cut them into 1-1/2 pieces and place them about a half-inch in front of him with the tongs. Once the worm starts to wiggle a bit he starts lurching for it. Make sure to dust feeders with a good calcium powder with vitamin D3 every other feeding and dust with a multivitamin powder once per week, but not on the same day as a calcium dusting (another awesome tip I learned from GrifTheGreat). RepCal is a popular calcium powder and Herptivite for multivitamins.

There's also Repashy Calcium Plus that offers a good balance of calcium and essential vitamins.

Hope this helps!

Also, I've noticed on some websites that sale reptiles and amphibians that all Pacs for sale are listed as C. ornata, even the cranwellies. Not sure why.

[GrifTheGreat]

Very beautiful frog!

I'm very glad the second UTH worked well for you. When I added one to the side of my terrarium it didn't make much of a change in temps. Now I'm wondering if the UTH, or temp gauge is working properly lol.

I also have a Fantasy (C. cranwelli X C. cornuta) and he either does not like tongs or hasn't gotten used to them yet. As JIvory mentioned, I have to drop feeders in front of him and "hide away" to watch. After 30 seconds or so he will raise up after detecting some food moving around then snatches them up when they get near. Carefully break the hind legs off crickets to make them easier for your Pac to catch (awesome tip offered by GrifTheGreat).

As for night crawlers, I cut them into 1-1/2 pieces and place them about a half-inch in front of him with the tongs. Once the worm starts to wiggle a bit he starts lurching for it. Make sure to dust feeders with a good calcium powder with vitamin D3 every other feeding and dust with a multivitamin powder once per week, but not on the same day as a calcium dusting (another awesome tip I learned from GrifTheGreat). RepCal is a popular calcium powder and Herptivite for multivitamins.

There's also Repashy Calcium Plus that offers a good balance of calcium and essential vitamins.

Hope this helps!

Also, I've noticed on some websites that sale reptiles abs amphibians that all Pacs for sale are listed as C. ornata, even the cranwellies. Not sure why.

The reason most places label the frogs as Ornates is because 1, Ornates are well sought after by a lot of keeper and are the most popular of the Ceratophrys species. 2, Whoever labeled the frogs species has no clue how to identify the species of the frog so they label them incorrectly. Key examples are chain stress like Petsmart and Petco, but occasionally we can take advantage of such misinformation as Petco and Petsmart sometimes have Ornates for sale for $15.00 because they don't sell them for their true $30.00 and up value.

[TeeRiddle]

The reason most places label the frogs as Ornates is because 1, Ornates are well sought after by a lot of keeper and are the most popular of the Ceratophrys species. 2, Whoever labeled the frogs species has no clue how to identify the species of the frog so they label them incorrectly. Key examples are chain stress like Petsmart and Petco, but occasionally we can take advantage of such misinformation as Petco and Petsmart sometimes have Ornates for sale for $15.00 because they don't sell them for their true $30.00 and up value.

Interesting stuff, Grif! It's a shame that some sellers mislabel the species in order to charge more, but I'm sure it happens a bunch. I'm surprised the ornates are the most popular species. I would have guessed green cranwelli. I guess that's just my perception because that's what I see most often in local pet stores

[Sir Mitchel]

Very beautiful frog!

Make sure to dust feeders with a good calcium powder with vitamin D3 every other feeding and dust with a multivitamin powder once per week, but not on the same day as a calcium dusting (another awesome tip I learned from GrifTheGreat). RepCal is a popular calcium powder and Herptivite for multivitamins.

Thanks for the praise.

Yes, I have both of the RepCal supplements you mentioned.