Septic? Need details on this :(

[Danielle Mammano]

I have been trying to add to my Pac Man frog family on and off for a while now. It would seem that the gods of the pet trade don't want me to have a third, because every single one of the three baby Albino's I have brought home have passed on despite my keeping them in perfect conditions.

This most recent one was a little sadder than the rest because, due to his bright yellow colors (the others were lime green), I purchased him as a gift to my boyfriend since it is his favorite color. He named the cute little guy Pebble and he was THRIVING until I came home from work today. I felt a big lump in his gut and he was so lethargic I nearly mistakenly buried him alive. After nearly three hours worth of AWFUL directions from several people we were able to find the only other reptile vet in our city (our usual one is on vacation). Since time was of the essence we were very upset; once we finally got there, we realized it was 10 minutes away from home. The vet there was in surgery but his tech was able to get some answers: she never wrote down how to spell it, but she said that Pebble was Septicemic?

She shined a light into his side so we could see his organs through his skin; his abdomen was FULL of a thick looking fluid. She gave me a medicine that I was to add to one quart of water and soak him for 15 minutes a day in order to bring the fluid down and normalize him. I have googled high and low and I cannot find a word of Septicemia in pac man frogs. What causes it? Is it preventable? Contagious? I don't keep him with other frogs but I work where I bought him, and the manager ordered another albino and stuck it in his old tank. I am unsure if the tank was cleaned beforehand (it should have been though). I can't find anything on this disorder other than general information.

Pebble hung in there as long as he could. He was really trying to pull through, I could see it - he was struggling to try and pass all the liquid for a while, but I think the swelling may have ruptured something as the vet did say she saw some light bruising on his larger internal organs due to the disorder. I read that some vets will drain the liquid via syringe, and I am wondering why she didn't think to do it...but he didn't look that bad when we brought him in, and it got progressively worse after we brought him home.

I knew that purchasing an Albino was inviting the responsibility of their health risks due to their husbandry, but I feel downright unlucky right now. The first baby had a neurological issue, the second simply passed without warning, and now poor Pebble is lying in his infirmary carrier, eyes sunken, so bloated I can see all the liquid through his beige spots. Since I have a green and a brown phase, I wanted to "complete" my collection with an Albino, but I still treat my frogs as anyone would treat their fluffy pets despite the insinuation that I see them as something to collect. I'm rather dismayed about it right now. I have a quart of medicinal soak I can no longer use, a lot of questions, and a boyfriend who is going to come home and be very sad.

[DVirginiana]

Sorry to hear that...
As to whether or not the frog would be contagious, it's probably not a threat to the new one in his tank, especially if it was cleaned before the new one was put in. Don't know a lot about it in frogs, but usually sepsis is the result of another underlying condition. It can be caused by something like toxicity in the bloodstream from a perforation in the gut; not necessarily something contagious. If the frog only went septic after you brought it home, my guess is there was probably nothing dangerous present while it was in the store.

[GrifTheGreat]

What were you feeding him? Was there anything in his enclosure he could have eaten by accident that could have injured him internally?

[Danielle Mammano]

What were you feeding him? Was there anything in his enclosure he could have eaten by accident that could have injured him internally?

Sorry for poofing, work got busy and time got away from me. I was pretty much just feeding him small crickets, I'd toss five in every week or so. I was keeping him on coco fiber, but tong-feeding him. I plan to keep, or at least feed, my next baby on wet paper towels. I raised my other two from babies and they never had issues with the fiber, but I realize that it's silly to generalize all Pac Mans based on the two I own.

I really do feel that animal quality has gone downhill. I do my best to take care of the reptiles and amphibians at my pet store (I work at a Petco), but my employers are not...smart...we'll say, and made me the small animal specialist. I haven't had a warm blooded pet in SEVEN years, and I know the ins and outs of everything we sell there (except for the weird exotics my manager orders from time to time - never knew Flying Geckos existed, haha). Most of my associates who do reptile care don't check for things that should be checked for - our White's Tree Frogs drop like FLIES, we lose baby corn snakes all the time, and whenever I do reptile care, and it's rare, I almost always find two or more health problems. I don't think my coworkers are apathetic, I think they are just uneducated, which makes me wonder more WHY *I* am not the reptile specialist. I suppose the main reason is I am the only one not allergic to the small animals' bedding that works there...but the logic is still bad; why take away from our herps someone who knows their stuff just because the bedding we use is allergenic? It'd be easier and better for the animals to change the bedding we use. Our morning manager is terribly allergic to fuzzy things so he always makes someone else do the infirmary (it's always got at least one guinea pig in there) - but why schedule yourself for the morning if you can't do the job? Corporate America is silly T_T. He even refused to give a baby ferret it's medicine because he was allergic to it. It passed away. He still has his job. How bloody hard is it to put on some latex gloves an scruff a ferret? It puts them to sleep and you can give them their meds and move on in under a minute. I could write a book on how frustrating it is to seem like the only one who cares about animals working in the pet industry >_>

Thanks for all the info on the disease. A blood infection just makes me wonder more - I use bottled water for my frogs since you can SMELL the chlorine in my tap water from across the room. Perhaps I should be treating even the "clean" stuff too.

I might just get my next Pac Man from Ivory Reptiles, haha. It would have to be a situation where I could set the date of delivery though, I'd hate to not be home and have the poor thing sitting in box in the front office for hours . My boyfriend is still too sad to want to get another one right away, so we'll see what the future has in store. I'm tempted to look for an adult or juvenile albino if we do go that route, I just am too paranoid about the baby ones now.

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm sorry for your loss. Most chain stores don't give a damn about their animals and don't even know anything about them. I call them out on what they do wrong all the time with no change.

It would be best to buy from a breeder like Ivory Reptiles since then you are guaranteed to get a healthy animal.

[Heatheranne]

It's hard to say what brought this on.

Septicemia is a generalized term meaning an infection in the blood.

Sepsis is an overall inflammatory response caused by an infectious process or by the derivatives or toxins released by the acquired bacteria, virus, or protozoan.

Emia means within the blood or bloodstream. Most disease processes that have the suffix emia mean the infectious response has not only entered the bloodstream, but has caused an overall infection, syndrome, or disease throughout the body.

It sounds as though he acquired an abscess. An internal abscess drainage is harder to perform than external due to risk of organ puncture and risk of internal leakage contamination. I am guessing that may be why the vet opted to treat with just antibiotics, which sometimes allows the frog to fight the infection. Though I am only speculating.

I am sorry for your loss .

I would, however, to risk any possible transfer of unknown infection, completely empty and clean the enclosure prior to adding any new frogs to it. It is not worth the risk. They are very permeable and may pass bacteria easily.

[Ra]

As sad as this all is, it makes me wonder, seeing so many similar problems ranging from frogs that dont eat, frogs with neurological disorders, to frogs with serious health defects and so on, that I have to wonder if there is a growing problem with the quality of frogs being sold on the market. Is it the fault of the few larger commercial breeders? The Pet Stores? Are we seeing multi generational problems? Do wild caught specimens need to be introduced to breeding lines?

What seems to be the problem with these frogs these days?

[IvoryReptiles]

I have to agree with Ra.......I know that stores like Petsmart & Petco get their frogs through the Frog Ranch.
This is why we do everything in our power to make sure the animals we produce & offer to the public are healthy and well started before they are sold. We will sell tadpoles & emergers to other breeders who know how to handle them. It's part of why we tong feed too. That way we get to inspect each individual froglet so we can catch any issues that may arise as they develop.

[DVirginiana]

I blame a lot on the petstores. It just seems like keeping one in crappy conditions while it's very young could lead to problems that keep coming up later on, especially if they don't get the right vitamins or get seriously malnourished.
When my w/c or breeder-bought animals get sick, it's like I treat them and they get better, and there are no more worries. With my petstore animals (including my pac) it seems like there's constantly some sort of minor health issue going on.

[Ra]

Im pretty sure alot of the pacman frogs in circulation are coming from the frog ranch.

While I didn't have ANY problems with any of my pacman frogs over ten years ago, the last three green pacman frogs I've had refused to eat. The one I purchased from a petco years ago rarely ate and grew slow, which was a big let down because well, theres a certain appeal to pacman frogs and its all in the name. I had him for a year and he never grew to more than 2.5 inches. I have two green ones now that behave in the same way, and also had red rear thighs from the time I purchased them. I've been force feeding, gently, the whole time and have recently begun administering antibiotics. Since the antibiotic treatment has begun they have began croaking and their color is brighter and more vivid, and their thighs dont have reddish coloration or visible capillarys. Im not sure if they will start taking food yet or not.

I'd like to see hobbyist level breeders begin to take a bit stronger place in the market and give big commercial operations that produce so many unhealthy frogs a run for their money. It probably doesnt help when the Frog Rqanch suggests that the frogs can be maintained in the coir filled deli cups they are shipped in for several weeks.