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Thread: Starting to think of getting poison dart frogs! Advice please

  1. #1
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    Default Starting to think of getting poison dart frogs! Advice please

    Hi everyone,

    I became a frog owner for the first time almost a year ago. My White's tree frog is still doing well, as far as I can tell healthy and happy. I fell in love with watching these little critters and have been thinking of getting more.
    Dendrobatids seem like a fascinating group of frogs to observe. I am entirely OK with not being able to interact with them as I do with my WTF. However, they seem fairly tricky to provide an environment for. I understand that they need a large amount of space relative to their size, but since most PDFs are very small, the enclosure still shouldn't end up being terribly big, should it?

    I am in college at the moment, and end up transporting my animals fairly often. With my frog's tank and my gecko's tank, there isn't a whole lot of space left in the car. Would it be all right to find a species of dart frog that would be happy in a smaller vivarium, and what species would that be probably? Would it be wise to have a breeding pair, would I be able to sell their babies to some kind of vendor?

    Or should I just hold off on them (for a few years probably) until I can provide a permanent space for them?

    Oh, another thing. Are there any dart frog species that do not call, or maybe the females do not call, or at least are very quiet? I am thinking D. auratus - the size is right, but I don't know whether they have a loud call or not.

    Thanks for your time. I'll probably have more questions after your replies.

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  3. #2
    arielgasca420
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    Default Re: Starting to think of getting poison dart frogs! Advice please

    dendroboard.com would be a better specified forum for these questions

  4. #3
    ToadPaparazzi
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    I'll give these ?'s a shot:

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Dendrobatids seem like a fascinating group of frogs to observe.
    Very true... I often find myself staring at my collection for hours on end trying to learn the behaviors of each frog...

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    However, they seem fairly tricky to provide an environment for. I understand that they need a large amount of space relative to their size, but since most PDFs are very small, the enclosure still shouldn't end up being terribly big, should it?
    I don't find it terribly difficult to care for them... Setting up the right environment does take time and a bit of research though... You'll want to figure out what species you'd like to keep first then build their enclosure to suit their specific needs. Depending on the frog and amount of that species you choose, you can have a vivarium as small as 10 gallons on up... For example, Dendrobates tinctorius are some of the largest dendrobatids but a pair can be kept successfully in a 10 gallon if set up properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    I am in college at the moment, and end up transporting my animals fairly often. With my frog's tank and my gecko's tank, there isn't a whole lot of space left in the car. Would it be all right to find a species of dart frog that would be happy in a smaller vivarium, and what species would that be probably?
    Most of this answered above however, I wouldn't recommend PDFs if they are going to be moved around a lot... This can be very stressful and can have negative effects on the health & well being of your frog/s. how often are you going to be moving their enclosure?

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Would it be wise to have a breeding pair, would I be able to sell their babies to some kind of vendor?
    I'd recommend starting off with froglets so you can learn all aspects of a frog's life cycle before trying to breed...

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Or should I just hold off on them (for a few years probably) until I can provide a permanent space for them?
    That's going to be your call... If you can successfully take care of them and not harm them with constantly relocating them.

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Oh, another thing. Are there any dart frog species that do not call, or maybe the females do not call, or at least are very quiet? I am thinking D. auratus - the size is right, but I don't know whether they have a loud call or not.
    I haven't worked with auratus but can tell you from experience that d. tinctorius have an almost silent call... Also, with almost all PDF species, females do not call.

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Thanks for your time. I'll probably have more questions after your replies.
    Ask away!

    -Christian

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    Default Re: Starting to think of getting poison dart frogs! Advice please

    Thank you arielgasca, I'll take a look at dendroboard.com.

    Christian, thank you for the detailed reply! I'm probably going to be moving the tanks when I come home for the holidays - Christmas, Easter, so on - and then back, of course. And naturally when I come home for the summer. I do go home for the weekends occasionally but I just leave the tanks in my apartment and have my roommates mist them or something. So, probably 5-6 such trips a year, maybe a few more. Both of my animals are adults and don't need to be fed every single night - for this reason I am concerned about getting froglets, am I correct that juvenile frogs ought to be fed every day? Or does that not apply to PDFs? Of course, I could just get a pair of males, or even one frog. I probably won't have time to worry about frog breeding for a while, anyway. Just something I'd like to do eventually.

    If that sounds like too much moving around, I'm fine with putting my dart frogging plans on hold. I would really like a few, but not at the expense of their health, of course.

    Hmm...a 10 gallon tank doesn't sound too bad. I assume I'm going to have to use live plants, silk ones will not do?
    Tinctorius have some very beautiful colours, I like the New River morph (looks almost like azureus, doesn't it) and Citronella, and Ensing is really lovely too. And "Lorenzo"! But I shouldn't get carried away, I have yet to find out whether getting them right now will be good for them anyway :P

    Also, a scientific question, is D. azureus a separate species, or not? I've come across several sources saying it's a morph of tinctorius. Looking at pictures of the both of them, though, there seem to be physical differences - azureus has more of a curved back. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me, though, the snout shapes are very similar.

  6. #5
    ToadPaparazzi
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    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Christian, thank you for the detailed reply!
    No worries! Always willing to help a fellow Frogger!

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    I'm probably going to be moving the tanks when I come home for the holidays - Christmas, Easter, so on - and then back, of course. And naturally when I come home for the summer. I do go home for the weekends occasionally but I just leave the tanks in my apartment and have my roommates mist them or something. So, probably 5-6 such trips a year, maybe a few more.
    I'd say with this much movement that it's a good idea to wait... However, read my comment regarding feeding below... This might change your need to move the frogs so often:

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Both of my animals are adults and don't need to be fed every single night - for this reason I am concerned about getting froglets, am I correct that juvenile frogs ought to be fed every day? Or does that not apply to PDFs?
    This depends on the size/species/age of the froglets... It's best (in my opinion) to obtain frogs that are no younger than 4 months... The first four months are critical for PDFs... PDF froglets (especially thumbnails) can just die overnight during this time... After 4 months, the odds of a froglet dying for reasons other than husbandry failure are greatly reduced. Most good/reputable breeders will not consider selling their froglets before 4-6 months.

    Regarding feeding; if you are planning on being gone for a few days, you would be fine feeding right before you leave and not feeding for a week (given your frogs are healthy and have a decent fat reserve). I feed my frogs anywhere from every day to a few times a day (smaller quantity more often to help stimulate breeding) to every 2-4 days. There are also discussions on a few of the PDF-specific boards regarding how to self-feed while gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Of course, I could just get a pair of males, or even one frog. I probably won't have time to worry about frog breeding for a while, anyway. Just something I'd like to do eventually.
    I'm sure once you have 1 or 2, you will blink and next thing you know, you have 20, 30, 40 more

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    If that sounds like too much moving around, I'm fine with putting my dart frogging plans on hold. I would really like a few, but not at the expense of their health, of course.
    See above regarding feeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Hmm...a 10 gallon tank doesn't sound too bad. I assume I'm going to have to use live plants, silk ones will not do?
    This is your choice... I'd never consider using fake plants but this is personal preference... I've become almost as fascinated with plants as I am with my frogs now... If you do real plants, you could do something simple like pothos... Make sure to get a bulb that emits 6500-6700k.

    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Tinctorius have some very beautiful colours, I like the New River morph (looks almost like azureus, doesn't it) and Citronella, and Ensing is really lovely too. And "Lorenzo"! But I shouldn't get carried away, I have yet to find out whether getting them right now will be good for them anyway :P
    New River tincs are awesome! Very similar to Azureus (depending on the line)... Here are photos representing two different morphs of New River tincs:

    Nabor's line:


    Vanishing Jewels line:


    Quote Originally Posted by bargaviking View Post
    Also, a scientific question, is D. azureus a separate species, or not? I've come across several sources saying it's a morph of tinctorius. Looking at pictures of the both of them, though, there seem to be physical differences - azureus has more of a curved back. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me, though, the snout shapes are very similar.
    Azureus are actually Dendrobates tinctorius "Azureus"... It has recently been classified as a population or morph of tinctorius. There are many different morphs of tincs ranging from the smaller dwarf tincs to the large citronellas, Azureus, etc...

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  8. #6
    morgan
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    Thumbnails, in general, are not for dart novices. I would try bumblebee leucs or auratus. Both are good bets for your first try.
    A 10 gallon is good for a pair, but sexed pairs are $$$...sometimes double.
    If 10 gal is it, Vents are the hardiest of the thumbnails.

    Dendrobates ventrimaculatus 'Sean Stewart Line'

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    Default Re: Starting to think of getting poison dart frogs! Advice please

    Hmm...gosh, it's a tough choice. I really like the idea of having darts... But I think I will wait for a few years at least. Especially given how much they cost, and how fragile most of them are, I don't think I should risk it right now. Even if I am able to forego feeding them for 4 days or more, that would cut out one, maybe two breaks. They'd still have to be relocated quite a few times, since most of my breaks are simply too long to leave them on their own.
    Of course, I might see a stunning one in a store, and throw my reservations out the window : P

    Morgan, are thumnails simply really small frogs? Then, in that case, tinctorius would be all right, wouldn't it? Just out of curiosity. I love the different colour morphs of tinctorius, but I think auratus are really beautiful as well, they have almost a metallic sheen. I am really just digging myself a hole here, haha.

    Thank you all for your help : )

  10. #8
    morgan
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    There's quite a few thumbs, just that vents are a good species to start with. Thumbs are usually more vertically-oriented...rarely leaving their broms. Tincs are huge compared to thumbs, imo. Auratus and leucs tend to be better in group situations and easy to care for.

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