Question about green apples

[Aaronhan]

all the green apples are from Ceratophrys joazeirensis x Ceratophrys cranwelli?

I think maybe some green apples , selective breeding from C.cranwelli...

[GrifTheGreat]

all the green apples are from Ceratophrys joazeirensis x Ceratophrys cranwelli?

I think maybe some green apples , selective breeding from C.cranwelli...

They're all a hybrid of Joazeirensis X Cranwelli. Mike is trying a breeding project to create Cranwellies that appear like green apples, but are not a hybrid.

[Aaronhan]

I see.. wow..
what's type of this green apples? I have no idea...

[GrifTheGreat]

I see.. wow..
what's type of this green apples? I have no idea...

Its still just called a Green Apple. This particular one has taken on more traites from the Joaz than the Cran. Reduced pattern is one of the effects of the crossing of the two.

[motiszm]

I definitely lean more towards the purist view point when it comes to hybrids. I'm all for Line breeding to get interesting colors, so long as the animals stay strong and healthy, but I don't really understand the drive for producing hybrids. I like cornutas and caatingas better than their cranwelli hybrids. I guess I've been poisoned against hybridization though by seeing all of the ball python hybrid monstrosities.

[IvoryReptiles]

I do not agree that all the BP morphs are monstrosities. They are not hybrids either. Some genetic pairings can have adverse effects, but I would simply avoid them myself.

I am not against the hybrids, I just prefer the frogs to be healthy. I also prefer the looks of the original strains to the hybrids. That is just a personal thing.....to each his/her own!

[motiszm]

Sorry for the confusion, I love cranwellies! And I agree, to each his/her own, but I wasn't talking about the ball python morphs, I love the morphs. I was talking about Burm balls, woma balls, carpals, ball bloods, and other crazy crosses. Seeing something that looks like a woma but has a ball python head freaks me out lol.

[motiszm]

But anyway, sorry for the tangent, it's disappointing that people are selling these when they clearly have genetic problems. Hopefully they are just ignorant and not purposely selling animals that they know are going to die or have serious problems a few months after being sold.

[BowserFrog]

I think its good people know the downfall of purchasing a green apple, this was a very informative thread , thanks guys!

[GrifTheGreat]

I definitely lean more towards the purist view point when it comes to hybrids. I'm all for Line breeding to get interesting colors, so long as the animals stay strong and healthy, but I don't really understand the drive for producing hybrids. I like cornutas and caatingas better than their cranwelli hybrids. I guess I've been poisoned against hybridization though by seeing all of the ball python hybrid monstrosities.

Refrase your words motizsm. Almost sounds like you're saying that Cranwellies are hybrids. You mean Fantasies and Green Apples right..

[Ra]

I definitely lean more towards the purist view point when it comes to hybrids. I'm all for Line breeding to get interesting colors, so long as the animals stay strong and healthy, but I don't really understand the drive for producing hybrids. I like cornutas and caatingas better than their cranwelli hybrids. I guess I've been poisoned against hybridization though by seeing all of the ball python hybrid monstrosities.

Its generally frowned upon elsewhere in herpretoculture, but the DM Fantasy Frog was created to fill a need for frogs that had Cornuta features without Cornuta problems. I just recently got my first Fantasy Frog and its awesome. Fortunately we're starting to see more and more success with people breeding captive bred Cornuta babies, but seeing as to how the Fantasy Frog doesn't have health defects and deformities, why not keep it going.
I don't see the point in breeding these green apples, especially if they commonly have problems. Obviously it just doesn't work. If there aren't any problems keeping Caatingas, and Green Apples look so much like Caatingas, whats the point? Is it a hybrid just for the sake of a hybrid?
Personally I'd rather just have a nice Samurai Blue or a lime green albino Cranwell, at least I know its mouth wont fall off.

We should all start putting the word out on these defects, so that people hopefully stop making these frogs.

[GrifTheGreat]

Its generally frowned upon elsewhere in herpretoculture, but the DM Fantasy Frog was created to fill a need for frogs that had Cornuta features without Cornuta problems. I just recently got my first Fantasy Frog and its awesome. Fortunately we're starting to see more and more success with people breeding captive bred Cornuta babies, but seeing as to how the Fantasy Frog doesn't have health defects and deformities, why not keep it going.
I don't see the point in breeding these green apples, especially if they commonly have problems. Obviously it just doesn't work. If there aren't any problems keeping Caatingas, and Green Apples look so much like Caatingas, whats the point? Is it a hybrid just for the sake of a hybrid?
Personally I'd rather just have a nice Samurai Blue or a lime green albino Cranwell, at least I know its mouth wont fall off.

We should all start putting the word out on these defects, so that people hopefully stop making these frogs.

Sam Blues and Lime Greens can still have problems. From my understanding a lot of the Sam Blues have issues from way too much line breeding. I happen to have one now that has Scoliosis. Plus these are definitely not natural Cranwellies in my opinion. Nowhere on any of the true blood Ceratophrys is there Blue coloring or even seafoam greene at least not in any of the 8 known species. Clearly something else at work here.

[motiszm]

Nowhere on any of the true blood Ceratophrys is there Blue coloring or even seafoam greene at least not in any of the 8 known species. Clearly something else at work here.

Anyone have any info on how the samurai guys originated the blue line?

[mikesfrogs]

The blue line ornates? Selective breeding. Same with all of the other morphs.

See the blue line female in my avatar?

[Ra]

Sam Blues and Lime Greens can still have problems. From my understanding a lot of the Sam Blues have issues from way too much line breeding. I happen to have one now that has Scoliosis. Plus these are definitely not natural Cranwellies in my opinion. Nowhere on any of the true blood Ceratophrys is there Blue coloring or even seafoam greene at least not in any of the 8 known species. Clearly something else at work here.

I had assumed it was some kind of slight melanism, lacking all that yellow pigment making them look blue.

[GrifTheGreat]

I had assumed it was some kind of slight melanism, lacking all that yellow pigment making them look blue.

Not quite. Most melanistic animals are half albino like the Albino Cranwelli which has red or pink eyes like True albinos do, but are yellowish in color with reds and greens and lacking black pigments. Sam Blues do not have red or pink eyes. Their eyes are normal.