help my retf please I'm new with frogs

[frogzombie]

1-size of enclosure 12x12x24
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?) 1 red eyed tree frog.
3-humidity is 60-80.
4-tempature is 80-85 day time and 70-75 at night. 5-water de-chlorinated- type - for both misting and soaking dish.
6-materials used for substrate is coco husk. 7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv everything was brand new and mist with de-chlorinated water
8-main food source crickets.
9-vitamins and calcium ? (once a week) 10-lighting day night timer 15 watt ugh and 12 watt night glo
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure. One small heat pad opposite the water with hydrotherm sensor 3 inches from coco fiber+ a small river rock from pet store on top of the uth.
12-when is the last time he ate. Every other day. 13-have you found poop lately. Found 3 poops since I got him June 18. 14-a pic would be great (see profile pic) 15- how old is the frog. Not sure. 16-how long have you owned him 1 month. 17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred. Captive bred I belive. 18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats crickets and I tried waxworms but he never ate them. 19- about how often the frog is handled. Never handl
ed by me but the pet store guy grabbed him gently from the glass to show me him (first time I'd ever heard of or seen this kind of frog) love at first sight. 20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area. Tank is kept in my room. With 3.5 sides covered. Night time cover is removed. 21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes daily, have not cleaned the enclosure yet but am looking for advice about adding drainage layer I've seen the post for eggcrate false floor and wonder if I should put one in when I do my first cleaning . Also I'm worried about handling my frog (red eyed tree frog) I understand they stress easily :) help too please with sensor placements. I'll take some pictures of my setup and would love any advice thanks everyone in advance

[DonLisk]

Sounds like your on the right track.

The drainage layer allows for the removal of excess water that would build up in your substrate and cause it to slowly rot if sitting soaked 24/7. With a drainage layer, your substrate can go years without requiring the need for replacement as long as spot cleaning is completed routinely.
Spot cleaning is only the pick up of visual droppings and cleaning of accents when needed. The droppings you miss become the fertilization for the plants in the tank.

If your wanting to create a tank that supports live plants then a drainage layer should be added.
There are many ways to create a drainage layer, fish tank gravel/stone, hydroballs (clay balls), and then a false bottom are the most common.

The eggcrate false bottom method works great or making it easy to drain off the excess collected water in the tank but will not make a place for plants to attach the roots to. Stone/gravel drainage layers do. Keep in mind that you want to have a piece of screen material between the layers so they don't just mix together.


As for handling, if you need to handle your frog, wash your hands with clean tap or spring water and use NO SOAP or Hand cleaners. Hand cleaners leave behind residue that will transfer to the frog when you pick him up. Even using hand cleaner at work then hours later handling your frogs will transfer the residue chemicals to the frog. So rinse well and leave hands damp when handling.

For tank sensor placement, have the temp and hydrometers placed at the levels you expect the frog to be most of the time. Say mid tank or closer to the top. Monitor both day and night temps. After misting, monitor how fast the humidity drops and where it levels off. My tanks level off at about 50 percent humidity so a quick misting brings humidity quickly and a morning mist then one in the evening is all my RETF tank needs to stay between 50 and 70 percent.
If your tank is drying out fast, covering some of the top (if made of screen) will help hold humidity in but may raise temps some so just change light height to adjust temps.

Hope some of this helps and welcome to the forum

[frogzombie]

Thanks for the great infirmation knowing this makes me want to put live plants in and use gravel or hydroballs for a drainage layer . I wanted to do my first cleaning and put the drainagelayer in as well but I'm not sure if I should use clay balls or gravel . Maybe IPL make a pole and ask there . I'm using a fogger hooked to the hydrotherm so humidity is always 75-85. Would adding real plants stress my frog or changing the layout? My tank size how many plants would you suggest? I have more questions but I'm at work right now and I like to see some more opinions before I make a final decision thanks again for the help my frog and I appreciate it!

[Heatheranne]

They would love a live vivarium . Tall plants are best. Hydroballs are easy to use. I ended up sewing a net around mine for easy cleaning. It's like a pillow case. A false bottom is a great choice when you're ready to make one. Don is the master viv maker and has great posts on how to make them.

They might stress for a day or two at first, but then they'll love it. Getting their home as close to how it would be in nature makes them happiest .

Congrats on your new frogs! Any names yet?

[frogzombie]

Thanks for the reply I'm going to use the pillow case idea. Anything to save time and stress hermit (my frog ) less. I'm definitely going to replace fake with live plants so should I add false bottom with hydroballs? I'd like to do it tonight after workif I'm feeling confident enough

[mrzoggs]

i read the title thinking something was actually wrong with your frog. is everything ok? maybe i skipped over something. anyways...


4-tempature is 80-85 day time and 70-75 at night.

i would drop the day time temperature a little. i wouldnt let it get over 82 during the day. and it doesnt necisarely need to be over 80 during the day. a slight temperature drop at night is definitely great for the frogs so your good on that.

9-vitamins and calcium ? (once a week)

what kind of vitamins and calcium are you using? and your method of using them? i use calcium with d3 on my crickets almost every time. and for vitamins i use exo terra liquid suppliment and put a couple drops in their water bowl. vitamins helped one of my frogs a ton.


3-humidity is 60-80
I'm using a fogger hooked to the hydrotherm so humidity is always 75-85.

not sure which one it is... but it doesnt need to be 85. and definitely doesnt need to get higher than that when you mist. my room stays about 55-60% and a good mist brings it up to about 75%


other than that everything looks good. i suggest getting a fecal check done before putting your frog into a permanent enclosure. if your frog has parasites or worms and you put it in a permanent enclousure, you have to tear everything out and start all over because it will infest the wood, plants, etc. so shoot dr frye a pm and get a fecal check done.

here is a good how to thread. and you can find dr dryes information easily on this forum. unless you would rather take it to a vet in your area.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...amination.html

worms and parasites in red eyes are more common than you might think so dont get the "that will never happen to me" thought.

just my $.02
Ryan

[frogzombie]

The hydrotherm is hooked up to the fogger and supplies constant humidity. It's set for 80 but it always jumps above 80 and doesn't turn back on until it falls below 75 near the lid is around 60 I'm at work now but I'll check the powder I'm using. I'm thinking it's calcium+d3. Where do the parasites come from? I've never handled her and change the water every day but I'm gonna ask the pet store where I bought her about where they have their tests done and if my frog was checked recently if not I'll totally get that done. Also is there any way besides vitamins and constant cleaning to protect my frog from them? I was really hoping to get the tank setup tonight for her but I'll follow any advice I can get and appreciateit much. Thanks again . Maybe I should get a 2nd enclosure ready with real plants and drainage before I do my first cleaning?.. I'm not sure how to proceed...

[mrzoggs]

sorry, i didnt mean to scare you. parasites are kind of normal in frogs. its best to get your frogs fecals checked before putting them into a permanent enclousure. basically, you dont want to put all your time and money into building an enclosure, then find out your frog has worms and have to tear it all back down. ive recently learned this the hard way so i like to remind people of this.

i sent some fecals to dr frye and they ended up having a horrible infestation of hook worms. hook worms are treatable as are many other worms and parasites in your frog. fecal checks are only $18 so its best to get it done ya know? 2 of my red eyes have been kept in a sterlite containor for a while now so if you need a non permanant enclosure id say that is the best way to go. just use a soldering iron to cut a hole in the lid so they can get air. sterilites are cheap from walmart or other stores. you can use white papertowels on the bottom and put some plants and stuff inside. dont rush into making a viv for them. most people make there first viv then realize they shouldve learned a lot more and took more time. so just dont rush into anything

[Heatheranne]

Just be sure to rinse off all plant soil and fertilizer, then rinse in dechlorinated water. You can plant your plants right into the substrate or use little potters. Use coco fiber substrate. Avoid husk, it can accidentally be ingested when they eat and cause impaction. Plain plantation soil can also be used. After I rinse all soil and fertilizer off I soak my plants in a clean bucket or rubbermaid bin with dechlorinated water to remove any possible mites or bugs. I completely submerge them for about 20 minutes.

Here is a picture of what I did with my hydroballs. Or you can just place them into the bottom under the substrate. Be sure anything you rinse or wet with has a final rinse with dechlorinated water, especially the coco fiber. You can also lay down a layer of plastic canvas craft sheets down on top of the hydroballs. I like my net bag bc I can just take out the top substrate, pull out the bag and rinse it, and siphon out any excess water. Wipe out the bottom, and replace it. Or you can just siphon out a corner. Lots of options.

The false bottom is my favorite with almost no maintenance once set up. I have pics if you'd like. I just siphon it out every 4 months or so. It's great .

Here's the hydroball net bag...

[Heatheranne]

Ryan is right...taking your time is best. It's good to give your plants a week or two to get going also. It took a good few weeks to get mine up and running. Might be good to keep them in their current home while preparing their permanent home.

Draw some sketches and look at others pictures. You'll have to figure out which plants you'll like too. They really like tall plants with tough leaves. They like vines and things to walk/hop across from leaf to leaf. They will sleep on the tall broad leaves .

http://www.froggie.info/plants/plants1.htm

[frogzombie]

I have a 12x12x24 eco terra right now but I am planing on getting a larger setup 4-6 times bigger but in the meantime because I don't have drainage I'm worried bacteria will start growin. Should I clean her tank and put drainage layer in untill I can get the bigger tank?. I'm such a noob with frogs I don't wanna rush but I can't wait for a fecalexam to come back but I am going to get one before I move her to the big tank. I'm going to the aquarium store right now and I'm gonna ask them some questions about drainage and parasites thanks again everyone for your valuable input.. I'm home now and I've adjusted day temps to 82 max anything else you guys think I should worrie about pleas don't hesitateto let me know.

[frogzombie]

What is the pillow case made of and what did you use to sew it closed?

[mrzoggs]

im not saying worms and stuff come from your enclosure. im saying the pet store couldve bought them from a breeder and the breeders couldve had worms. there are breeders that sell field collected frogs for a lot cheaper and many of them come with parasites and or worms. your enclosure is probably fine for now. i had mine in a 10 gallon without a drainage layer for quite some time. dont let the substrate stay soak and wet and muddy though. an under tank heater might be able to cook out some of the moisture if it gets too wet down there. there are many how-to threads you can find on false bottoms and hydroton bottoms. heather has supplied you with a nice one. for drainage you can use a pump to pump out the water or you can drill a hole in the bottom of the tank and plug it. then pop the plug out to drain. all really depends on your money situation and preferance. fecal check is $18 plus shipping. i just recommend you do it whenever possible. i dont want you to spend your time and money on a new tank for your frog then put the frog in it and the tank become infested. the stuff is so tiny you cant see it unless its under a microscope so its not like you can tell yourself. who knows, maybe you will get the fecal check back and everything will be fine. but i still think its one of the first things that need to be done with a new frog. it will save you a lot of time and money doing it first instead of last! and will also cut some of the stress and sickness of your frog if your frog happens to have something and you can medicate it.

[Heatheranne]

I made it with fiberglass netting in the screen section of Home Depot. It comes on a roll. I sewed it with fishing line.

[frogzombie]

EyeThanks I've got my hydroballs now I just gotta hit up Canadian tire. They'll have both screen and fishing line. I also picked up some aquarium tube to siphon my extra water . I have all fake plants right now but but I'd like to start replacing them with real ones described earlier. I went to reptile store .ca and read a bit about their policies on obtaining their animals and feel they are obtained from legit breeders. That said I'm still going to look into a fecal exam before the final move . On the same note I don't wanna be a frog hypochondriac I'm keeping a close eye on her temps and humidity not to mention activity. Thanks for your concern.

[Heatheranne]

It sounds like you're doing a great job. I think we all get like that until we get comfortable with them .

You're welcome . Building their homes can be as fun as watching them. It's fun to see how everyone puts their own style into them.

[flybyferns]

frogzombie,
I would re-pot the plant in coco substrate and wait at least 2 weeks prior to exposing a frog to a plant that had fertilizer or pesticides on the leaves and in the soil!
ie from home depot. The roots of the plant should be rinsed completely during this process or dunked in a bucket of water. The separate plant business that HD subs out to care for the nursery products uses a product that is exactly like Osmacote. Not something you want to expose your frogs to!

Osmocote Plant Food - Multi-Purpose Plant Food

[flybyferns]

Just be sure to rinse off all plant soil and fertilizer, then rinse in dechlorinated water. You can plant your plants right into the substrate or use little potters. Use coco fiber substrate. Avoid husk, it can accidentally be ingested when they eat and cause impaction. Plain plantation soil can also be used. After I rinse all soil and fertilizer off I soak my plants in a clean bucket or rubbermaid bin with dechlorinated water to remove any possible mites or bugs. I completely submerge them for about 20 minutes.

Here is a picture of what I did with my hydroballs. Or you can just place them into the bottom under the substrate. Be sure anything you rinse or wet with has a final rinse with dechlorinated water, especially the coco fiber. You can also lay down a layer of plastic canvas craft sheets down on top of the hydroballs. I like my net bag bc I can just take out the top substrate, pull out the bag and rinse it, and siphon out any excess water. Wipe out the bottom, and replace it. Or you can just siphon out a corner. Lots of options.

The false bottom is my favorite with almost no maintenance once set up. I have pics if you'd like. I just siphon it out every 4 months or so. It's great .

Here's the hydroball net bag...

Heather,
The pouch idea is unbelievable!
Have you considered a "How'-To" article on this?
:butterlfy:

[Heatheranne]

Thanks Lynn! I hadn't, but I could . It is much easier to clean.

[frogzombie]

The reptile store near my house sells plants that look like they'd be good for my terrarium . Maybe even ready to go ? I'll ask them about the care the used for the plants. I want to use a similar plant to the fake one I have in there now (see profile pic) tall leaves grow straight up in a circular shape not sure the name and maybe some orchids. I've seen people do some cool things with bamboo . What do you guys think? I'm going to Canadian tire today after work to get the mesh and fishing line and I'll make a video for you tube Heather will get all the credit obviously thanks again for the fantastic idea. Can anyone suggests a vine for the back wall?