Red Eyed Tree Frogs in New Mexico!

[Bolisnide]

I stopped into PetCo to pick up some crickets for my white's, and to my surprise they had 5 Red Eyed Tree Frogs! And they were on sale for $29.99!
And, they had a 12x12x18 zoo med frog kit on sale for half off!
I have never seen red eyes in NM!
Well, my addiction got the better of me.. and my husband is now convinced I am a complete frog freak !
I now have 2 of these beauties in a 12x12x18 enclosure.
I need some advice on the enclosure and the frogs.
The enclosure came with frog moss (sphagnum moss), a brick of coco fiber, a terrible fake plant for mounting to the side, some water conditioner and rept-vite.

Here's a photo of their enclosure, thinking of taking out the fake plant on the right as it's a little pokey:



for now, the substrate is the moss which came with the tank, a top that is the coco fiber, and atop that some oak leaf litter I already had on hand. Not really happy with the substrate as it is now and any suggestions are more than welcome. I will eventually do a false bottom like in my white's tank.
There is an exoterra vine, fake branch I had on hand suctioned to the left side of tank, a fake plant in the front left, and that horrible fake plant hanging on the right. There is also a live snake plant in the substrate at the far left hand corner. I will be adding some pothos soon....
Do you think the 12x12.18 is suitable for now? For how long? I will be upgrading to a larger tank when I have more funds in a few months.

I've been keeping humidity at about 80 and the temp currently is about 82 farenheit. Last night the temp was about 74. I have a 40 watt day lamp above the tank, and at night currently nothing. Will probably add a ceramic heat emitter during the cooler months.

Now for the frogs! Both seem fairly healthy, not too skinny and have a nice green color. The pet store said they fed yesterday morning, so I didn't try feeding them last night. I will feed in a glass bowl, and will try that tonight.

They both had a very stressful afternoon being transprted to our house in the country about a 45 min drive, then in a critter keeper until I set up the tank. Moving them into the tank was a little tricky, they are so jumpy and delicate (unlike my sturdy and somewhat chunky white's tree frog). But they made it safely and are now settling in.
They did go into the water bowl last night as there was some coco fiber in the bowl this morning, and are now both asleep.

One is up high in the corner of the tank:


The other is on the substrate below, I'm a little worried about this one on the floor. I nudged him gently with my clean finger this morning to be sure he was still alive, and yes he is. And his color looks ok:




My son and I are sooo excited about these little gorgeous frogs.
Again, any help would be appreciated.

[frogdad]

I was surprised when I found my RETFs at Petco too. The Petco here in KY had 5 and I bought 2 and put them in a 12x12x18 ExoTerra. Like you, I plan on upgrading the tank in the near future. I'm planning the upgrade around Christmas time. I might go with the 18x18x24. I hope they will be okay in the smaller tank for now. Good luck!

[mrzoggs]

for substrate i would suggest paper towels for a little while at first. also send some fecals to dr frye to make sure everything is ok with them. the humidity does not need to be at 80 and the temperature does not need to be 80 or above. i dont even use a light for my red eyes and neither do a lot of other sucessful red eye keepers. the only light that is helpful is used only for daylight, not heat. i keep them about the temperature of my house. today they were at about 78 all day and now dropped to about 72. the humidity in my room stays about 60 and then i mist them once or twice a day.

keep us updated on the one that sleeps on the floor. i always get really paranoid and lose sleep when one of mine do that. it doesnt happen any more but it didnt stop me from freaking out when it did.

i guess the moss is fine since its covered but bowl feeding is a great thing for them to learn. since they lunge for their food, sometimes they get a mouth full of substrate. Moss is a BIG no no for them to get a mouthfull of. but with a bowl, they wont get a mouthfull of anything. you can also count the crickets being eaten and put as many as you want in there. and you wont have dead crickets lying everywhere. plenty of good reasons to start on a bowl.

a 12x12x18 is kind of small. not too much bigger than a 10 gallon vert if im correct. the rule is pretty much 10 gallons per frog. a 18x18x24 would be perfect for them and they are $79.99 at petsmart right now.

[Bolisnide]

for substrate i would suggest paper towels for a little while at first. also send some fecals to dr frye to make sure everything is ok with them. the humidity does not need to be at 80 and the temperature does not need to be 80 or above. i dont even use a light for my red eyes and neither do a lot of other sucessful red eye keepers. the only light that is helpful is used only for daylight, not heat. i keep them about the temperature of my house. today they were at about 78 all day and now dropped to about 72. the humidity in my room stays about 60 and then i mist them once or twice a day.

keep us updated on the one that sleeps on the floor. i always get really paranoid and lose sleep when one of mine do that. it doesnt happen any more but it didnt stop me from freaking out when it did.

i guess the moss is fine since its covered but bowl feeding is a great thing for them to learn. since they lunge for their food, sometimes they get a mouth full of substrate. Moss is a BIG no no for them to get a mouthfull of. but with a bowl, they wont get a mouthfull of anything. you can also count the crickets being eaten and put as many as you want in there. and you wont have dead crickets lying everywhere. plenty of good reasons to start on a bowl.

a 12x12x18 is kind of small. not too much bigger than a 10 gallon vert if im correct. the rule is pretty much 10 gallons per frog. a 18x18x24 would be perfect for them and they are $79.99 at petsmart right now.

Hi there,
Thans so much for your adivce! I think I will change out the substrate to paper towels, I like that idea a lot. Should I get the brown non-bleached? Or is regular white ok?
Just to clarify about the moss, I am perfectly aware of the danger moss in an enclosure pses, that's why I put it on the bottom layer with no exposure to the frogs themselves.
And about the temp and humidity. I read in several places the humidity should be 80% or higher? This is not correct? What is the proper range? 60-80%?
And the temp I read should be up to 85 degrees during the day and about 75 at night? I do need some heat as I'm in the mountains and we are cooler than in most regions. What would you suggest for heat? Without a heat source the enclosure will be about 65 day and night...
Do the red eyes require UVB? Or is natural light ok?

I tried bowl feeding last night, and all the crickets were there in the morning. Not one was eaten. Do they need some time to get used to it? My white's is such a big eater, I'm not sure what is normal for a red eye.
Also, though both the frogs moved around at night, this morning both were on the floor. I'm starting to get concerned. What would cause this?

And, I do realize an 12x12x18 is a little small, but they are really small still (about quarter size), as I said, I will upgrade when I have the funds. I will probably upgrade in a few months.
I am not a newbie to frogs themselves, but yes to Red Eyes. I appreciate your kind advice.
Thanks!
Thanks for all of your help...

[mrzoggs]

Hi there,
Thans so much for your adivce! I think I will change out the substrate to paper towels, I like that idea a lot. Should I get the brown non-bleached? Or is regular white ok?
Just to clarify about the moss, I am perfectly aware of the danger moss in an enclosure pses, that's why I put it on the bottom layer with no exposure to the frogs themselves.
And about the temp and humidity. I read in several places the humidity should be 80% or higher? This is not correct? What is the proper range? 60-80%?
And the temp I read should be up to 85 degrees during the day and about 75 at night? I do need some heat as I'm in the mountains and we are cooler than in most regions. What would you suggest for heat? Without a heat source the enclosure will be about 65 day and night...
Do the red eyes require UVB? Or is natural light ok?

I tried bowl feeding last night, and all the crickets were there in the morning. Not one was eaten. Do they need some time to get used to it? My white's is such a big eater, I'm not sure what is normal for a red eye.
Also, though both the frogs moved around at night, this morning both were on the floor. I'm starting to get concerned. What would cause this?

And, I do realize an 12x12x18 is a little small, but they are really small still (about quarter size), as I said, I will upgrade when I have the funds. I will probably upgrade in a few months.
I am not a newbie to frogs themselves, but yes to Red Eyes. I appreciate your kind advice.
Thanks!
Thanks for all of your help...

i use white paper towels. not the ones with flowers and stuff all over them. its easier for me to clean and easier for me to check for poop. once i get them perfect and healthy for a while i will probably change it up to a more natural looking habitat. i havent heard any bad reviews on the non bleached paper towels either. i just wouldnt get ones that smell or have pictures all over them.

Temperature

Day: 26-28 °C (78-82 °F); Night: 22-24 °C (71-75 °F)

i would definitely not go above 82 degrees for them for prolonged periods of time. mine do fine at the lower ends of that scale. 71 at night, 78 during the day. dont let it drop below 68 for long periods of time either.

as for the lights, just enough to bring your temperature up. no specific kind. its basically only for temperature. i use no light on them at all at night. they like complete darkness at night

to teach them to bowl feed i suggest having some outside the bowl and also inside the bowl. until they learn that there is crickets inside the bowl.

them both on the floor is not a good thing. but they could be on the floor trying to escape the heat or because of humidity reasons. also it could be that something was wrong with them when you bought them. that enclosure i guess is fine for now since they are small but i would definitely look into upgrading.

sorry id get more into detail but im in a rush. just wanted to give you some tips before i ran off for a little while. ill check on this thread when i get back.

[Bolisnide]

Thanks for your time in getting back with me.
Dimmed the day lamp way down, temp is now 74. I'll watch the temp to get it at about 78 and make sure it doesn't get much higher...
I never use light at night for my white's and would never use one at night for the reds. They are all in complete darkness at night. Last night temp was 68.
Humidity is at 60%.
The frogs ate last night, about 5 small crickets between the two. And are now both asleep up high on the snake plant.
Sooo, I think they're a bit happier now.
This weekend I'll change out their substrate, and wait for some fecals to send to Dr. Frye.
Thanks for your help

[Bolisnide]

I was surprised when I found my RETFs at Petco too. The Petco here in KY had 5 and I bought 2 and put them in a 12x12x18 ExoTerra. Like you, I plan on upgrading the tank in the near future. I'm planning the upgrade around Christmas time. I might go with the 18x18x24. I hope they will be okay in the smaller tank for now. Good luck!

Just curious, how are your frogs doing?