Amplexus or homicide?

[Pascale]

Greetings I just newly acquired 3 Fire-Bellied Toads. I placed them in their habitat on Wednesday evening. They had all been housed together before I brought them home. Near the end of the evening, I did see one toad on top of another in the water - I didn't think a whole lot about it, figured it was normal based on what I've read.

The next morning when I went to check on them, the one that had been on the bottom was simply dead in the water. Assuming that I'd gotten a toad that was maybe ill or too stressed for the move, the store replaced it for me. I brought the replacement home, and within 18 hours the same toad was holding the new, and much larger, toad under the water again. This time, the spouse witnessed it. Not being sure how long they can be held under water, and having just lost one toad, I became a bit nervous and gently shooed the small toad off the bigger one. The big toad, who had been the one being held, was fairly unresponsive, although he did become more active within a few minutes and within 20 minutes they were both in the pond next to each other, seemingly ignoring each other. My question is, what do I have going on here? Amplexus? Erotic asphyxiation? Anyone care to share advice, or two-bit opinions?

[Allistor]

I really don't have enough experience to give a good input on it but my male FBT has been doing amplexus as well, and sometimes will hold my other FBT under the water for a few seconds. Being amphibious though I would have to assume they can hold their breath a little longer than humans, so I myself wouldn't worry unless they were under for more than a minute. How long did your toad hold the other toad? Mine seems to do it for maybe 10 seconds then lets go, then comes back later for round whatever haha. The (I guess) female that was grabbed will then stay under for another split second then come back up and return to normal. Hopefully someone more experienced can chime in though

[Pascale]

Well, I'm not sure how long he held the first one down, but she never came up alive

[mshine1217]

Pascale,

Is the smaller toad still showing the behavior? You may want to consider lowering your water level until you're sure that the other toads are in no danger.

[tgampper]

There are some reports concerning female frogs and toads drowning during amplexus. Males are generally smaller and become quite amorous. Sorry to hear of your loss