Sick Pacman and Vet unsure

[Izzy]

I don't want to get my hopes up, but he has seemed to improve since last night. After I noticed his color change, I checked on him periodically. He tried to get in his water dish a few times. It was a little sloppy, not as smooth as he usually does, but that is the first time since his illness began. While in the water dish, he shed some skin that was really dark gray. He didn't eat it, but it has seemed to make him feel better. His yellow markings are more yellow brown now, and he's way more alert. During the entire illness, he has been very compliant. I could do anything to him: pick him up, feed him, and he even tolerated being in his travel container to go to the vet. This morning he was very alert and when I put the saline solution on him, he tried to escape! I don't want to get my hopes up but those seem like improvements, right?

[GrifTheGreat]

I don't want to get my hopes up, but he has seemed to improve since last night. After I noticed his color change, I checked on him periodically. He tried to get in his water dish a few times. It was a little sloppy, not as smooth as he usually does, but that is the first time since his illness began. While in the water dish, he shed some skin that was really dark gray. He didn't eat it, but it has seemed to make him feel better. His yellow markings are more yellow brown now, and he's way more alert. During the entire illness, he has been very compliant. I could do anything to him: pick him up, feed him, and he even tolerated being in his travel container to go to the vet. This morning he was very alert and when I put the saline solution on him, he tried to escape! I don't want to get my hopes up but those seem like improvements, right?

Yes, more activity is a good sign. You're not out of the woods yet, but this is an improvement.

[Locascio]

i feel you pain bro keep up the good work and i hope your little buddy pulls out of it...good luck

[Izzy]

i feel you pain bro keep up the good work and i hope your little buddy pulls out of it...good luck

Thanks so much!

[Izzy]

I clean his tank everyday when I force feed because he is on paper towels and it can make a mess if he is not cooperating. Today I noticed a small black spider in his tank under the paper towels. It wasn't there yesterday. I saved the spider to show to my vet but I am worried that if the spider bit him it can harm him. I know common spider bites can hurt some reptiles but do they harm amphibians?

[GrifTheGreat]

I clean his tank everyday when I force feed because he is on paper towels and it can make a mess if he is not cooperating. Today I noticed a small black spider in his tank under the paper towels. It wasn't there yesterday. I saved the spider to show to my vet but I am worried that if the spider bit him it can harm him. I know common spider bites can hurt some reptiles but do they harm amphibians?

Yes badly.

[Locascio]

yes thay do and even the smallist spider can couse grate harm ... ive got to ask how he got threre.. you must look out for thees things one slip up and you might lose him

[Izzy]

I have no idea how it got there. It is very tiny. The lid on his tank has some tiny slits for ventilation. It may have climbed through that way. It was stuck beneath the paper towels, and I check on him periodically even through the night. I don't think it bothered him but I saved it just in case. He has not been behaving differently. I will keep checking on him routinely. There hasn't even been any live food in the tank in two weeks so I have no idea how it got there or why it went in his tank. I'm so worried. I'm going to put spider glue traps around his tank immediately.

[GrifTheGreat]

I have no idea how it got there. It is very tiny. The lid on his tank has some tiny slits for ventilation. It may have climbed through that way. It was stuck beneath the paper towels, and I check on him periodically even through the night. I don't think it bothered him but I saved it just in case. He has not been behaving differently. I will keep checking on him routinely. There hasn't even been any live food in the tank in two weeks so I have no idea how it got there or why it went in his tank. I'm so worried. I'm going to put spider glue traps around his tank immediately.

Spiders find their way into anywhere. No matter how well you think something is sealed especially your house they will find a way. I'm sure it didn't bite him. Probably climbed in there for warmth and since most spiders have book lungs they need moisture so their lungs work properly. The spider was probably after warmth and a drink from the paper towels.

[Izzy]

Spiders find their way into anywhere. No matter how well you think something is sealed especially your house they will find a way. I'm sure it didn't bite him. Probably climbed in there for warmth and since most spiders have book lungs they need moisture so their lungs work properly. The spider was probably after warmth and a drink from the paper towels.

That makes me feel a little better. I don't want anything to happen because he is finally showing slight improvements.

[Locascio]

grif is right... spot on grif...

[GrifTheGreat]

grif is right... spot on grif...

Thank you

[Izzy]

I spoke with the vet today. We go see her tomorrow. She may start treating for parasites tomorrow. She has been consulting with other specialists, and they say that just because the fecal test was negative doesn't mean that it's not parasites.

[GrifTheGreat]

I spoke with the vet today. We go see her tomorrow. She may start treating for parasites tomorrow. She has been consulting with other specialists, and they say that just because the fecal test was negative doesn't mean that it's not parasites.

True, some parasites such tapeworms will not always show up in fecal exams. There are also different methods of testing the fecal sample (such as floating or spinning). Sometimes one method will reveal something another didn't.

Best of luck tomorrow! Vet trips are very stressful for frogs, so try to eliminate as much stress as possible. Keep a close eye on him. I would watch out for them having the AC on high in the vet office. You don't want your little guy to get too cold. Let us know how everything goes. Again, I hope everything goes very well!

[Izzy]

The trip to the vet went great! They only drained 6 cc's of fluid this time compared to 23 last week. They gave him panacur in the office, and he will take metronidazole for the next 5 days. He seems to have improved a little since last week. He put up a fight during force feeding and medicating this afternoon. I almost got bit, which is a first, so hopefully he is getting better. He also tried to run away from me a few times, and he hasn't done that since the illness began.

[Izzy]

Here is an update. The little guy just finished his medication, and he appears to be more alert. He is still retaining water, and he won't eat unless made to. He has become much more active; he even climbed in and out of his water dish on his own. But, he keeps flipping over once again. I read this could be stress. It only started when we started the medication, and he really disliked the medication. It was an oral medication, and now he is very reluctant to take anything from me. I have to convince him it is food.

[Ra]

Here is an update. The little guy just finished his medication, and he appears to be more alert. He is still retaining water, and he won't eat unless made to. He has become much more active; he even climbed in and out of his water dish on his own. But, he keeps flipping over once again. I read this could be stress. It only started when we started the medication, and he really disliked the medication. It was an oral medication, and now he is very reluctant to take anything from me. I have to convince him it is food.

When was the last time you have cleaned the enclosure and changed the substrate? You should probably give the enclosure a complete cleaning and change the substrate.

I would suggest a quarantine like set up with moistened unbleached paper towels and a water dish and plastic hide (or a giant wad of moist paper towels) to make for easy cleaning and observation until your frog returns to health.

[GrifTheGreat]

More activity and resisting you is also a good sign. The flipping over is stress. You need to find a way to relieve his stress. He may need another Vet trip, but I'm not sure why he is still retaining fluid. It is normal for them to loom really bloated when they absorb water and are well hydrated, but when they urinate usually the water is gone and they must reabsorb more fresh water.

[Izzy]

More activity and resisting you is also a good sign. The flipping over is stress. You need to find a way to relieve his stress. He may need another Vet trip, but I'm not sure why he is still retaining fluid. It is normal for them to loom really bloated when they absorb water and are well hydrated, but when they urinate usually the water is gone and they must reabsorb more fresh water.

I actually spoke to the frog doctor just a few minutes ago. We are going to monitor the bloating. It has been nearly two weeks since he had a bowel movement so we are hoping he really needs to go. If the bloating doesn't decrease by Wednesday then we go back to the vet. I'm hoping that now that he is off the medication he will calm down a bit. It was the only time I have had to give him anything but food orally and he really didn't like it. I think it tasted bad. I offered him food in his tank for the first time yesterday and he refused it. He actually moved away from it. She said there is a possibility that after we heal him we will have to break him of being hand fed. Now that he is used to that he may prefer it.

[GrifTheGreat]

I actually spoke to the frog doctor just a few minutes ago. We are going to monitor the bloating. It has been nearly two weeks since he had a bowel movement so we are hoping he really needs to go. If the bloating doesn't decrease by Wednesday then we go back to the vet. I'm hoping that now that he is off the medication he will calm down a bit. It was the only time I have had to give him anything but food orally and he really didn't like it. I think it tasted bad. I offered him food in his tank for the first time yesterday and he refused it. He actually moved away from it. She said there is a possibility that after we heal him we will have to break him of being hand fed. Now that he is used to that he may prefer it.

Mine started eating on her own when she became well, but she didn't have what your Pac has. Hopefully yours will do as my big female did and eat on its own for you.