picky pacman?

[Lija]

1. 12x12x18 exo terra
2. one brown pacman
3. 75-85%
4. 85 day and night
5. dechlorinated tap water
6. eco earth
7. just substrate, shallow water dish, plastic plant
8. hopper mice
9. Vitamins and calcium? none since I have him
10. infrared lamp
11. infrared lamp as UTH wasn't enough to get higher then 80.
12. he ate 2 days ago
13. Have you found poop lately - found it 3 times since I have him ( since april) each time about week after he ate.
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) - sorry my camera is not working now.
15. no idea, I was told he is 10 month when I got him, so now he should be a bit over a year.
16. about 3 month
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - i don't know
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats, refuse to eat anything but mice.
19. How often the frog is handled - a few times a month for tank cleaning.
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - low traffic, but can hear loud noises ( kids screaming, music)- then he starts croaking
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) - he doesn't go to water dish at all, but I change it anyway every other day or so., substrate changes - every week.

here is a thing, I got him in april, saved him to be exact, his previous owner shouldn't have any pets, ever- he was planning on throwing him away like a trash, literally (((( It was my very first frog, I wasn't planning on getting any, but I just couldn't let him do what he wanted to do with poor thing. When i got him he was sitting deep in substrate ( eco earth) that was about 6', no heating, water, weird looking plastic plant with some glitter glue on it, moldy piece of wood. I was told that he was eating mice and gold fish only and he was hibernating from november to march and he started to eat before I got him. I don't know if any of what I was told is true, but the frog didn't look sick or too skinny.

so after reading a lot here on a forum and getting the point that gold fish/mice diet is not good for pacmans and all other great advice I changed the tank and everything in it ( see above). a week after he was in his new enclosure I gave him a hopper mice, he ate with no problem, and then the war started, I was trying to convince him to eat crickets/night crawlers/anything other then mice with zero response. I kept offering, and he was just sitting there in one spot for a month and then I gave up and got him a hopper again, he refused it too, he was getting very skinny so a week after that I force fed him some night crawlers, he vomited it 2 days afterwards, I tried to FF him again a week later, he vomited again. so I gave up, raise his temp to 85 ( was 80 before), soaked him in honey water and got him a hopper, he ate! I was too scared to try experimenting with food again, so a week after I got him another hopper that he ate in seconds. in those 3 month that I have him he ate 3 hopper mice in total and pooped 3 times as well.

so the question is - what should I do with that stubborn guy? should I be happy that at least he eats something even if that something is mice only or keep trying? and if to keep trying then how? I was trying tongs and just leave crickets overnight and wiggling worms in his face.

[HerpDerp]

I have been having a very similar problem with my pacman frog. Mine would only eat crickets and waxwoms (which isn't a huge problem). But Crickets are a huge pain the butt both to keep and feed and wax worms aren't exactly healthy so I tried to feed him worms and dubia roaches. Well after trying that a few times he just stopped eating all together. He got so emaciated that I decided to try wax worms again because he was too lethargic to catch crickets. So now that's all I can get him to eat, but at least he's eating.

What I've been trying to do is to feed the wax worms with tongs to get him used to tongs again. So maybe I can trick him into eating a night crawler from tongs. I suggest you try something similar to this. Although if he is vomiting up food I would be a bit concerned. I don't have a lot of experience with that. I suggest you try Dubia cockroaches. They get pretty big so that might entice your frog to eat them since he's used to big prey. And they're actually healthier than crickets, they are more hearty, easy to breed and don't stink like crickets to. Now if only I could get my frog to eat them...

[arielgasca420]

i am not an expert, but if you have the same temp day and night maybe thats why. There should be a slight fluctuation in temperature from day to night along with a good photperiod so that he can tell the difference between day and night. I keep my cage at 82-83 degrees during the day and let it drop to 74-75 at night. I feed my frogs at night because during the day he is less active and likes to rest. I always had trouble feeding my pacman and usually I tap the food on his mouth to piss him off and then he will eat. he is a healthy weight so I am not worried about him starving, but his growth rate is very slow.

[arielgasca420]

also, try superworms and try lightly tapping it on the front of his mouth to get a rsponse. If you do feed him mice make sure they are pinkys. the fur on hoppers is hard for digestion. Mice are high in fat and I have read that they do not have a good nutrition ratio. i give mine mice as a treat every two weeks but I feed them worms one day, crickets the next, and a dubia the day after. variety is key and make sure to read up on calcium dusting. sometimes less is better than more.
It seems like his aestivation (hibernation) was pretty long. He is most likely still bouncing back.
This frog does need water. i usually put mine in a warm water dish and let him soak. he likes it a lot and sheds his skin.
I am sorry to hear that this previous owner did not do the research to have a specialty animal. I am glad you are doing everythign you can to give him a good life. just make sure to keep posting on here. I have had great advice coming here with my questions. good luck! message me if you have anymore questions

[Lija]

thank you guys, I'm really scared at this point to even look at him so not to stress him out what I can't get - mice/crickets/worms it is all moving, so why he is eating one thing but refuses other, is it possible that they getting used to certain things like mice in my case and everything else see as something annoying running around. say crickets are running around, trying to hide under him, he just closes his eyes and "shrinks", same if I get something else in his face. He is not getting mad at all, all he does is backs off and closes his eyes.

I'll try to turn lamp off at night - easy to do and feed him after temp is a little lower - is it what you are saying? cos I'm feeding him at night anyway. he is not active in any way - day or night, sits in one same spot all the time, ate a hopper from same spot and continue sitting there.
as for dubia - it won't work as they are not available here, but all other wiggly/moving things that are available I've tried.

[Lija]

he refused to eat pinkys and fuzzys, but ate hopper, glad we have other pets that are eating any size of mice, so was easy to get rid of whatever he didn't eat. with pinky it was very funny, like best friends they were cuddling together, pinky was basically climbing in his mouth, but the guy just closed his eyes.

[IvoryReptiles]

NO Superworms!!! The chitin of their outer shell is hard for the frog to digest. It sounds to me like the frog had an impaction and that is the cause of the throwing up. To be honest, 85 is just a bit high and there should be a cooler spot for the frog to go to if it chooses to. The gradient should be between 82(high) to 76(Low).

At this point, you have a choice.....either allow the frog to remain eating the diet it is used to, or putting the effort into changing it. Pictures of the frog would help too. If the frog remains on the current diet, it will probably live a shorter life than it could, but there would be no fights for dominance between you two.

Try Mollies instead of goldfish. If you decide to try again, Nightcrawlers is the better food......tease the frog with it.....wiggle it and tickle the frog's lips with it..........this should elicit a feeding response. Just keep trying. If the frog is of good weight and is healthy, it can go for a bit without food until it gives in and eats the worm.

Keep us posted!

[GrifTheGreat]

also, try superworms and try lightly tapping it on the front of his mouth to get a rsponse. If you do feed him mice make sure they are pinkys. the fur on hoppers is hard for digestion. Mice are high in fat and I have read that they do not have a good nutrition ratio. i give mine mice as a treat every two weeks but I feed them worms one day, crickets the next, and a dubia the day after. variety is key and make sure to read up on calcium dusting. sometimes less is better than more.
It seems like his aestivation (hibernation) was pretty long. He is most likely still bouncing back.
This frog does need water. i usually put mine in a warm water dish and let him soak. he likes it a lot and sheds his skin.
I am sorry to hear that this previous owner did not do the research to have a specialty animal. I am glad you are doing everythign you can to give him a good life. just make sure to keep posting on here. I have had great advice coming here with my questions. good luck! message me if you have anymore questions

No Superworms. They can cause impaction. One a week can be fine, but they should be Fed few and very far between, but preferably not at all.

[arielgasca420]

No Superworms. They can cause impaction. One a week can be fine, but they should be Fed few and very far between, but preferably not at all.

My pacman is 2 years. he is fine with superworms. it is a matter of opinion really, the bigger they get the less you have to worry about impaction. Apicture would help us a lot though

[arielgasca420]

he refused to eat pinkys and fuzzys, but ate hopper, glad we have other pets that are eating any size of mice, so was easy to get rid of whatever he didn't eat. with pinky it was very funny, like best friends they were cuddling together, pinky was basically climbing in his mouth, but the guy just closed his eyes.

In my opinion I would not do live mice. I have heard many horror stories of live mice eating their pets. Once he gets eating try to get frozen and thaw them out in warm water.
As for the lamp, try to use a low wattage night lamp to keep the temp of the cage from dropping too low from the day time temp. I feed my frogs at around 10 pm. The light timer goes off at 8pm. I dont know what the weather is like in canada, but I hear its cold so make sure to watch for temp drops when the light is off. Do you have a light timer?

[Lija]

..... there would be no fights for dominance between you two.

was laughing on this one, that is exactly what it is, and he wins big time :lol: but with your guys help and support I'm ready for round 2

he didn't eat gold fish for me, it is just what I was told he used to be fed.

so right now i turned the lamp off at all and turned UTH that is attached to the side, it kept temp at about 75 before, we'll see, it is pretty warm now here. also soaked him in de chlorinated water, he pooped and buried himself afterwards but not too deep, and didn't look too upset with me, I'll post pics tomorrow or later today if figure out how he ate on Monday - should I give him some more time? or should I try nightcrawlers late tonight?

live mice that I gave him was eaten right away and that other one that he refused I took away as soon as it was clear that he enjoys being the boss.

[Lija]

that is how he looked like when I got him 3 month ago,




that is his tank today after cleaning, he spilled quite a lot of water from his water dish when I placed him back, the substrate usually is not that soaking wet.

[IvoryReptiles]

that is how he looked like when I got him 3 month ago,




that is his tank today after cleaning, he spilled quite a lot of water from his water dish when I placed him back, the substrate usually is not that soaking wet.

LOL.....spilled water is the norm, no need to worry. He looks healthy, he is just asserting his dominance. Believe me, I have a few who do it nightly!! I think seriously it will just take some patience to work with him to get him accepting foods he didn't know before. Change can be stressful for any creature.
Keep us posted on your progress!!

[arielgasca420]

He looks ok. Too small for superworms though. Mine was huge at 10 months and i would feed him a skinny baby superworm once a week but i would wait awhile before you try because they do have a hard shell.

[Lija]

round 2 - pacman vs human here we go! it is unbelievable how such a tiny creature can make me dance around like that
thank you guys!

[Lija]

round 2 - pacman vs human here we go!

and it goes to HUMAN!!!!!!!! so he pooped while soaking, then buried himself up in a tank (pic above) , sat like that for a while, then walked around, made a VERY big poop and went to exact same spot as before. lights were down at 8, I tried to feed him at 10ish and he ate it - a big wiggly night crawler! first pretended it is not food, but then ate! So happy!!!!! the only thing - temp in a tank right now at 70 (warm side), will need to get another bigger UTH tomorrow. what size would you recommend for 12x12x18?

[arielgasca420]

i have always found UTH to be a waste of money because it is hard to gauge the temp with them. I just threw out my UTHs and bought a 100 watt incandescent night bulb. the night bulb doesnt bother their sensitive eyes and the incandescent bulb is compatible with a dimmer switch so that I can gauge the heat to a certain degree. since your enclosure is a wee bit smaller( mine is a 18X18X24) than I would try 50 watt to start with and see how it changes the temp. make sure your thermometer is right above the substrate because the substrate is where they burrow if it is too hot above. my pacman has been eating more ever since i got the new bulb. he is still fiesty but his response is quicker

[Lija]

Exo Terra Heat Glo Infrared - Heating - Reptile - PetSmart

that's what I have - exo terra 75 W heat glo, never tried it with a dimmer, but will try - may be it'll help to get temp of 80 but not more or may be i should get 50W to get lower temp. when I put another UTH this morning on same side of the tank in 2 hours temp didn't change much, still at 70.

is it the same lamp as yours?

i have a feeling that infrared lamp kills the humidity that is very very low in Alberta as it is i also have a feeling that I'm paranoid :lol:

by the way I'm sure that IvoryReptiles was right on a spot suspecting impaction, the frog pooped again this night that is third time since his soaking yesterday, I'm not exactly sure how it is even possible to have so much poop in one little frog.
he was also very active, even went to soak some more in his water dish that he had never done, burrowed in one spot by a heater, but then in the morning i found him in another spot.


guys - do you think i should try another night crawler tonight, or wait until tomorrow to get him more hungry?

[arielgasca420]

I was told that if it does not say incandescent on the box than it will not do well with a dimmer switch. Dimmer switches will kill bulbs in less than a week if they are not the right kind.
if you are using a regular lamp with the bulb you currently have than the dimmer will most likely not raise the temp. I use the dimmer because I have a 100 watt and sometimes it gets a little too hot. the dimmer will help for night time temp though. you can leave the light on day and night (because its infared) and dim the bulb down at night so that you can drop the temp a few degrees to exactly where you want it to be. If you have an infared bulb at night than it wont disturb the frog's photoperiod. I use the reptiglo to help with UVB and photoperiod during the day time. i set my timer to 12 hours on 12 off
I am glad to hear he is pooping so much! what does it look like? did it have chunks of fur in it? I agree that it was impaction. Possibly from the mice?
because he evacuated all his bowels, I would try a few worms just to see if there is a feeding response. He is probably hungry. Keep soaking in warm water at least once a week. I usually do this every other day for my frog, just to make sure he sheds his skin. I usually just gently set him in the water and have him decide if he wants to soak or not.
I dont know if this method works for frogs but I tried it with a leopard gecko. for leopard geckos they advise to use 100 % natural olive oil in their mouths for impaction on top of warm water soaks. just a tiny dab of olive oil because it works as a lubricant. I would research this because even though it worked for the gecko, I dont know what effects it has on frogs.
It seems like you have overcome the obstacle! he should be ok now but nightcrawlers will be better for him than mice, just because of his small size. try going back to a pinky and see if he will eat one. tickle his mouth with the pinky for a few minutes.

[GrifTheGreat]

Ok I'm going to say this once because a lot of people have mixed feelings on how to keep their frogs and their opinions, but I for one use both UTH and Incandescent light bulbs with a lamp that has a dimmer switch.

For safety reasons as to not harm your frog NEVER USE A 100 WATT BULB!!!! That is insanely overkill. You should never go higher than 50 watts for day or night time bulbs. You can seriously harm your frog and most lamps that have a dimmer switch are not to have bulbs higher than 75 watts used in them. There are a few lamps that do go higher, but most are too big.

A UTH is not useless as it helps keep a temp gradient within the enclosure as well as allowing you to use bulbs that have concentrated beams of light that can warm the ambient air within the enclosure to the exact temp you need without turning the bulb up so high that it is dangerous for the frog. There is no exception for 100 watt bulbs they are too Powerful.

All of my frogs are kept in an enclosure that uses a UTH and Incandescent heat lamps with a dimmer switch and all bulbs are 50 watts NO higher. No matter what heat lamps will burn off humidity as the temp rises within the enclosure so you will need to solve this problem by covering 3/4 of the mesh lid with plexiglass or Sarah Wrap. DO NOT set the lamp on the Sarah Wrap. Covering the lid this way helps hold humidity and heat, but humidity will still drop so keep an eye on it. If you want to use lights and keep humidity exactly where you desire it to be then buy a Reptifogger and a Zoo Med Hygrotherm and hook the dogged up to it. The Hygrotherm will control heat and humidity units per your settings and maintain them for you. I have 3 Hygrotherm and six foggers and all my enclosures are spot on. I hope this helps to give you some ideas of what you can and should nog do when it comes to maintain your Pacman Frog's climate.