Fire-belly sub-species??

[chrisbliss]

I just started keeping fire-bellies again and I've been searching the local pet stores for deals and what I've found is a couple of color variations. Most of the ones I've found are brownish to dark olive green with a couple of greenish spots. I did, however, find one pet store which sold some brilliant green fire-bellies with the kind of coloration you see in the care sheets. I've heard that they will turn brown if cage conditions or lighting is poor and that they will turn green again if conditions improve. Is there any truth to that?
I've also read that there are lots of subspecies. I actually ended up buying one frog from each pet store and the two "ugly" ones (the brown/grey blotted ones) are pretty similar- lots of pronounced "worts" and no red on the toe tips. The third frog, however, is gorgeous (definitely an oriental)! Bright green with less pronounced, more rounded "worts" with solid black, perfectly symmetrical markings, the red markings are also visible on the tips of its toes. It looks like a different sub-species. Is it? My other guess is that the other two were a result of less than ideal captive breeding conditions. I've seen this happen with fish where they are bred in someone's tank and the fry are really dull-colored. Does this happen with fire-bellies too?
Any info would be appreciated, sorry I wrote so much.

[Socrates]

Take some pictures and post them up for us to see. That will make an ID much easier.

[Kurt]

As far as I know, there are no subspecies of Bombina orientalis. My understanding that it may be genetics that produces these different morphs within certain populations. Most fire-bellies offered for sale are wild caught. If a toad is collected from a population whose diet is low in carotenes then it's not likely to have brillant red-hues on its underside. Same goes for a captive bred toad that have not been given insects that have fed upon carotene rich foods, such as carrots or sweet potatoes.

[Alex M]

I just started keeping fire-bellies again and I've been searching the local pet stores for deals and what I've found is a couple of color variations. Most of the ones I've found are brownish to dark olive green with a couple of greenish spots. I did, however, find one pet store which sold some brilliant green fire-bellies with the kind of coloration you see in the care sheets. I've heard that they will turn brown if cage conditions or lighting is poor and that they will turn green again if conditions improve. Is there any truth to that?
I've also read that there are lots of subspecies. I actually ended up buying one frog from each pet store and the two "ugly" ones (the brown/grey blotted ones) are pretty similar- lots of pronounced "worts" and no red on the toe tips. The third frog, however, is gorgeous (definitely an oriental)! Bright green with less pronounced, more rounded "worts" with solid black, perfectly symmetrical markings, the red markings are also visible on the tips of its toes. It looks like a different sub-species. Is it? My other guess is that the other two were a result of less than ideal captive breeding conditions. I've seen this happen with fish where they are bred in someone's tank and the fry are really dull-colored. Does this happen with fire-bellies too?
Any info would be appreciated, sorry I wrote so much.

As Kurt says, there are lot's of locality orientalis but no seperate subspecies - the brown specimens tend to come from Korea, the greens from China. Would like to see pictures of your frogs as one certainly sounds like an European native B.bombina (very hard to obtain over here in the UK but i'm fortunate to have a few - they're a European protected species and are a typically tricky species to breed). Be interested to see photos. Cheers, Al

[Kurt]

B. bombina (very hard to obtain over here in the UK but i'm fortunate to have a few - they're a European protected species and are a typically tricky species to breed).

They're are even harder to get here in the US.

[Alex M]

They're are even harder to get here in the US.

Doesn't surprise me Kurt! I'm not sure if this happens so much in the US but certainly over here it's amazing how many people get orientalis and bombina mixed up, they tend to base their identification on them being bombina purely because they're brown when obviously this is also a very common colour form for orientalis!. My bombina are just following the variegata out of hibernation in their outdoor enclosures at the moment. Cheers Al

[Kurt]

Over here confussion is rare as all we get for the most part is orientalis. I did see some albino B. bombina offered a few weeks back on kingsnake.com, but that was a rare occassion. At your average show or in your average pet store all you will find here is B. orientalis. I can't tell you the last time I saw variegata and I have never seen maxima (except for the Nissan kind )

[FinnyBird]

EDIT:
Bah! I'm sorry for dredging this up! For some reason, my computer decided to tell me this was a recent topic.

Most of the ones I've found are brownish to dark olive green with a couple of greenish spots.

I did, however, find one pet store which sold some brilliant green fire-bellies with the kind of coloration you see in the care sheets.

The ones that look more olive or brown, with possible spots of green are probably Bombina bombina. The bright green ones, however, are probably Bombina orientalis, aka European and Oriental firebellied toad. I can't say this for certain, of course, without pictures, but it sounds just about right.

European:


Oriental:


People always seem to prefer Oriental because they're far more vivid; however, depending, European fire-bellies can be quite stunning. I own six Orientals and one European. The European one is colored in such a shade that, paired with her smooth skin, she looks like she's copper-plated. She lives happily with my Orientals in a 55 gallon tank.

By the way, I'm new here. Sorry for jumping in, I just though I'd contribute what I know.