Pacman Noob Nightemare - Looking for some Answers!

[SitFrogStay]

First off, Hello. I go by Kay. I am a first time amphibian owner and to be completely honest with you, totally ignorant to it. All my life I've only owned mammals or fish.

I didn't know Pacman frogs even existed until about a year ago. Seen a video on them on YouTube I came across by random browsing. Adored them ever since. I've read about their random facts and care and thought to myself, this is for me!

Well, little did I know.... how little I knew. Lol. After I had made the purchase of Paco, my FIRST Pacman frog, I came home and since then it's been "Oh no I didn't get...", "Oh no I shoulda got...", "Oh no I was supposed to...", "Oh no he needs...", etc etc.

It's only been ONE week today since I've had him, and I'm extremely worried about his well being. He doesn't eat and I'm pretty sure it's because of the conditions I have him in.

I feel guilty for purchasing him before I really knew what I was doing. But what's done is done, he's here now and I'm going to do everything I can do to give him a long healthy life.

However, I need some guidance on how to do that.

I've been a reading son-of-a-gun this past week. I can't count all the web pages and tutorials and YouTube care videos and Yahoo Questions, etc that I've looked over. After looking through all this information, I'm VERY CONFUSED!!!! It's all Red Vs Blue pretty much. While one suggests you do this for your Pacman, another says No don't do that!!! And while I see different answers to some of my questions I haven't found everything I'm
curious about. Some are... kinda silly, but Frogs are alien to me.

I did come across this Forum, however, and so far it seems like my best shot for some accurate answers. It is an all Frog discussion so surely I can get some if not all my answers here and let me tell you, I would appreciate it soooo much. I'm already attached to this thing and I don't want his fate to be fatal because of my mistakes.

I've posted below the "Trouble in the Enclosure" questions. To be honest with you, after answering some of these has left me feeling rather silly. But all in all please, I really need some guidance on what is best for my frog.

I do apologize if the information is a bit choppy and everywhere. I have so many questions they almost all run together. I'll try to give as much detail as possible for accuracy.

1. Size of enclosure
It's a 10 gallon Terrarium.

2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
No others, just Mr. Paco.

-Okay, before I answer number 3 and 4, something tells me a lot of my problem has to do with the lid on the terrarium, lol. It's a screen cover. I'm going to go ahead and try to explain my issues in detail for the questions anyway and if my lid IS my issue, please direct me on the right thing to-

3. Humidity
This varies. I'm having a difficult time keeping it stable. It goes anywhere from 60% to 80%, normality is 70%ish. I mist it pretty good in the mornings before I go to work, and in the evenings when I come home, and sometimes when needed right before I go to bed - unless I see the humidity is right on 80%. I have two wash rags I laid about two inches on either side of the heating lamp across the top of the cage and it somewhat seems to help but I could really use some pointers on keeping the humidity stable.

4. Temperature
It stays right on the dot of 70 degrees (Now, this is about where the temperature in my room stays). It's been there since I set up the terrarium, hasn't budged in a week. I can't tell if I'm not keeping it warm enough in there or if the temperature gauge is broken, or if all the heat is escaping. The humidity gauge is on the same... gadget, lol, and the humidity part seems to be working just the temperature needle doesn't budge. When I first got it, I ran the heating lamp and a heating pad to get the temp. up.

I do not know what it is about the heating pad but I do-not trust it, both for fire hazard and for my frog. So for the first couple days I had him I ran the heating pad a couple hours at a time and then turned it off. You could see the humidity under the coconut husk from it, but the Temp. gauge never budged with it on - my gut doesn't like the heating pad, it didn't seem to help with temperature so by the third day I disowned it. I read conflicting things on the heating pads - that you should use one for a pacman and I read you shouldn't have one for a pacman. What should I do to get his Temperature higher and WITHOUT using a heat pad. I DO have a heat lamp that sits directly on the screen cover lid of the terrarium. I run it about 8 - 12 hours a day. Regardless the temp still looks the same, I'm worried I'm frying my frog. It's a 60watt bulb.

ALSO on the lighting thing I wanted to ask. I've read that a florescent bulb is much better for a pacman than a heating bulb. Is this true? If that's the case, does the florescent light help with heating the terrarium? If the heating bulb IS okay, am I sitting it too close to my frog?

5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
K, the tap water where I live is so bad with chlorine it nearly killed my Spider Plant. So I didn't want to fart with using tap so for the first 3 days I had him I was spraying him and using the same water I use for my plant in his water dish. Distilled water. Then I read that distilled water will hurt a pacman frog so I immediately dumped his dish and spray bottle and replaced it with Spring Water.

6. Materials used for substrate
Coco Husk. And there's this thin green turf that came with the terrarium kit that's underneath it all. I just kinda shrugged and laid it down and put the Coco Husk on top.I've recently read in this forum that the Husk is no bueno. :\ I will see about feeding him outside his cage until it's time to replace the Husk and I'll buy the coconut fiber for now on.

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
Um. I'll be posting a crappy pic of my set up for y'all to see. There's two cheap lawn ornament frogs I bought at the Dollar Store, and 3 small Dollar Store fake plants. 4 Large rocks I got from our drive way, and two sticks I got out of our wood pile. And a water dish.

Every item listed I wash thoroughly in the sink, especially the stuff I picked up from our yard lol.

Before anyone freaks about the rock cave I made him, trust me - if an earthquake comes them dudes are not budging. I have no intentions on smashing my frog. :|

8. Main food source
Crickets when I first got him. I bought a dozen from PetSmart the same day I bought my frog. I didn't want to get an over abundance until I knew how he was going to eat. I didn't want to clean up a million crickets out of his cage everyday. And I'm glad I did, because he only ate 3.

I recently bought some earthworms, because they're closer available than crickets. He hasn't ate one yet. I've been cutting them up in thirds to make them cricket sized but he doesn't seem to have anything to do with them. He hasn't eaten since the 3nd day I've had him. So today it's been 4 days.

Yesterday I got a little desperate to see if he'd eat something besides a worm, so I caught a little grasshopper just a tiny bit bigger than the crickets he was eating. Paco hadn't any interest.

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
Shame on me, I do not have anything. I didn't learn of how important this step was until after coming home with him. I planning to order what I need online to-day. I wanted to ask what you guys would suggest first. Is there anything I can buy all in one or are the vitamins and calcium separate? I "dust" his food every other feeding.... correct?

10. Lighting
I think I pretty much summed this up in questions 3 and 4. Night time he doesn't have any lighting.

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
I think I summed this up in questions 3 and 4 as well.

12. When is the last time he/she ate
4 days ago.

13. Have you found poop lately
No, I haven't. To be honest with you... I'm not 100% positive yet on what their poop really looks like. As silly as it sounds, I've just been picking out what looks like shouldn't be in there. >>;;

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)


15. How old is the frog
The young man helping me at PetSmart told me around 1 year old. His accuracy, I'm not too sure of. To be honest with ya he had to think a bit before answering my questions lol. I'd say he's about the size of a half dollar, give or take just a little bit.

16. How long have you owned him/her
One week of madness and confusion. I'm not positive if it's a he or she. I just assume it's a him. I suppose I'll find out if it ever croaks or not? Only males croak correct?

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
I assume captive bred since I bought him at a pet store.

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
Um. What do you give them as treats? And how often?

19. How often the frog is handled
Almost never. I can't bring myself to aggravate him. I will not let his food he won't eat sit there and aggravate him either. When I got his terrarium set up the day I brought him home I set his little go cup thing they put him in the pet store inside the terrarium and kinda slowly tilted him out. I was going to let him get out on his own but he was more than content where he was and my patience got the best of me. Two days after that I picked him up with my fingers for the first and last time to set him in his water dish because I wanted him to know where it was. He chilled in there quite a bit before getting out. He hasn't been in it since. He just sits in his cave. Which now I think of it I probably need to scoot him out in a bit to clean his spot. I doubt there's any feces.. he hasn't ate. But they still urinate correct? Is it bad to let them sit in one spot for a very long time because of their waste or does it necessarily matter?

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
Low. He is close to my bedroom door - inside my bedroom - but only me and my boyfriend come in here and we're generally gone most of the day working. I'm the most traffic.

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)
Well, like I've said I'll pick out what seems like shouldn't be in there. I cleaned his water dish out once. The time after he got in it (which was the same time I read distilled water was bad for them). It was dirty after he gotten out. Since I've changed it - it appears nothing's been in it. There's no evidence left behind. Should I still change it out everyday regardless? I know drinking water gets kinda stale tasting if you leave it out in your cup for too long and it's kinda nasty... can frogs tell the difference as well?



Somemore Questions:

1)Cleaning: Please, what is the proper and easiest ways to keep his home clean? How often does his "bedding" need to be completely changed out? Is all the decoration I have in it unessisary?

2)"Force Feeding" - When is this necessary to do and how do you guys do it? The only thing I've ever force fed in my life are pills to dogs. Is it pretty much the same way? Shove it in their throat and their reflexes do the rest? How long do they go without eating before you force feed them?

3)Feeding - When I get my frogs conditions right, which I'm sure they're not, will he eat on a feeding schedule like I've read other people's frogs do? Or does this depend on the frog? Do you guys buy crickets and keep them in a separate place and feed em to em one at a time rather than putting them all in there with him orrr what's a better way to do it?

4)The CORRECT Humidity and Temperature? I've ready all kinds of different numbers but the most common I've seen is both on 80?

5)Life Expectancy? Some say 5 years max, some say 15 years max, some say 20+ years?

6)How big can he get? I've read anywhere from 5-8inches?

7)When I mist his cage, I mist him too. I'm afraid he's going to sit there and dry himself out. Is this necessary for me to do? When can I tell when he needs to soak and isn't doing it? I'm kinda wondering if he doesn't get in his water dish because I'm doing it for him lol.

8)Shedding, what are the signs?

9)POOP, what does it look like? I picked up a couple things that looked like cricket body form kinda but black and well, poopy looking kinda. I feel so stupid lol. I've never had an amphibian before so I don't know if they have turds or their stuff comes out like it goes in. I absolutely hate not knowing what I'm doing.

9)Any extra information or facts or anything about Pacmans you think I should know? Even if it's not really important blab it out to me. I wanna know.


I'm very sorry for the excessive post, but I really appreciate your time and help. I realize I can't fix it in a day but I know I definitely need to start fixing it! Thank you so much!!!!

[GrifTheGreat]

Well I can assure you the conditions are not adequate. Your frog is extremely stressed from being placed in a new home and most will not eat for a day to a week while adjusting to the new environment.

Several changes must be made.
You need to get h on Coco Fiber ASAP. The husk is dangerous to feed them on due to it being a bedding that carries high risk of impaction(severe constipation due to intestinal blockage) resulting in death. You must make sure all water you use is either De-chlorinated with a de-chlorinating agent or real natural spring water. Do not spray the frog directly. This can harm the frog and causes unnecessary stress.

They require a temp gradient so the should be a warm and cool side. This is easily done with a UTH placed on the side of the tank. Despite you not wanting to use one they are safe if used as directed. Water dish should be placed on the opposite side away from The UTH.

I used to have the same gauge you're using and they are not accurate. Buy a new one and if possible go digital. I realize that you've asked several questions and I must say now that you will be scolded not only by me, but a few other experienced members. RESEARCH BEFORE PURCHASE!!!! You must have what you need and know how to care for your frog way before you purchase him/her. You have time to correct the issues though so do not get discouraged.

Main problem here is that the tank may be too large for a juvenile which is what he looks like to me. Definitely NOT a year old. If he is then that pet store did not care for him properly and his growth has been stunted greatly. It may be best to purchase a medium sized critter keeper and place some moist Coco Fiber substrate in it along with his water dish and purchase a UTH for Hermit Crabs because they are safe for plastic. It will be the best move for now to get him established.

What kind of heat light are you using? 60 Watts is too high you should never go higher than 50 watts and you need to use a lamp that has a dimmer switch so you can accurately control the amount of heat abs light produced by the bulb. Daytime temps for one this young should be 80° to 82° and night time temps should be 78°. Humidity levels should be maintained at 80%. You can use Saran Wrap to cover 3/4 of your screen top and leave just enough space in the center for your lamp to still sit on the screen. Do not place the lamp over the Saran Wrap because it may melt and start a fire. Doing this will help hold heat and humidity levels.

If you plan on keeping him in the 10 gallon (which right now I will advise against) you need to cover 3 sides of the tank, (but not the front) with some sort of dark background so your frog feels more secure.

Do not worry about force feeding because your are not that bad off right now. Just change the setup to the features I've suggested and see what happens. If he is stressed(which he is) even if you take him out of his tank to feed him he more than likely will still not eat.

What size crickets ars you offering him? Rule of thumb is that they should be no larger than the distance between the frogs eyes.

I may not have answered all your questions, but first things first. We need to get him establish and eating then worry about the rest.

You should purchase a Reptile Multivitamin like Rep-Cal Herptivite and a calcium supplement that contain Vitamin D3. Dust with multivitamin once a week and every other feeding with the calcium. DO NOT use both at the same time in the same feeding.

Keep us posted.

[IvoryReptiles]

Okay......you didn't miss anything so I am going to try to do right by you with the same. It's gonna be a novel......

Let's start with the Water:
it's one of my pet peeves. Distilled water can be fatal to the frog because it has NOTHING in it (no minerals or vitamins) and will leech them from the frog. We use & recommend to use de-chlorinated water. We use Prime as a de-chlorinator, but almost any will do, you can find it in any pet store pretty much.

Substrate :
We prefer coco fiber in the finest shred you can get, just inspect it for rocks or large solid clumps that could be ingested accidentally.

Lighting :
We don't use it ourselves, but we breed them. For looks, a Red or Blue light is cool for decoration & viewing purposes. Remember these are nocturnal animals and will get required vitamins & minerals from their foods & supplements.

Humidity & Temps :
Humidity should be kept in the upper 80's and temps should vary Cool to Hot no lower than 76, no higher than 85......at the lower temps they will attempt to aestivate (go to sleep, hibernate) and will shut down until temps are more acceptable. You can use plastic wrap on the tank lid to cover 75% of it to try to keep humidity up and it should also help to keep temps steady. You will need a UTH (Under Tank Heater) to place on one SIDE of the tank.....do NOT place it under the tank floor.......they will dig down right over it & possible cook themselves that way.

Enclosure Size:
This will depend on the size of the frog. We usually keep our juvies in plastic tubs (again, we breed them and space is an issue for us). If the frog is small & the cage too large, they will stress out. Looking at your photos, I think the 10 gal is just fine. I think the issue may just be temps & humidity.

Food :
In our experience, the nightcrawlers/earthworms are the best staple food nutritionally speaking.....a varied diet is best all around though. Use the worms as a staple and add crickets, horn-worms & dubia roaches if possible for variety. You can offer a pinkie mouse as a treat maybe once every 3 months, but we don't really recommend it. The mammalian proteins are difficult for them to digest and if feed this too often will result in Fatty Liver Disease which is fatal. You can also order some of the Samurai Food. It is a powder that you add water to and is a complete diet for them. We have yet to have a frog refuse it. Also, feed in the evenings....again, nocturnal frogs.

Supplements :
Dust food items with calcium w/D3 twice a week, vitamin supplements twice a week and not the two on the same feeding. The other days, don't dust at all. They get used to routines & will adapt to a schedule fairly easily.


I don't think you have anything to worry about yet. If you can correct the issues & give him/her a few days to acclimate, I think things will turn around for you. Once the frog gets nice & warm & sweaty, it's appetite should kick in. It may take a bit of teasing with the worms to get the frog to open it's mouth for them, but just keep doing the Zombie Dancing Worm Dance with the tongs and tickle it's mouth with the worm until it opens it's mouth out of instinct or plain old anger. Hey.....it works for me....even with the tiny just emerged froglets!!

Your other questions:
Shedding happens often. You will see the frog look like it is trying to take off a body suit....back legs rubbing over the head and sides.
Cleaning : Spot clean every other day or so (remove poop clumps) and do a substrate change once every month and a half.
Feeding: I covered the schedule stuff. I don't think force feeding is an issue yet.
Size & Life Expectancy : Size can be 3 1/2 inches (usually males) to possibly 8 inches (a huge female) This goes for the C. cranwelli at least. The ornates get bigger. As for life expectancy, they can live up to 14 years.....i believe there is one at a zoo that is over 20 years old??? It will all depend on the husbandry & the individual frog too.
Misting/Soaking : Make sure he has a water dish and access to it. Make sure it has clean water in it and is no deeper than the frog's chin. They are terrestrial and pretty much are lousy swimmers....LOL. Misting is needed to keep the humidity up with the screen tops, but you don't need to mist the frog directly. It just tends to tick them off and is a source of amusement for us humans.
Poop : Normal poo looks like little brown sacks......almost like an earthworm head chunk. If need be, I will take pics of poop sacks tonight during cleaning/feeding time for you.


It took intelligence to ask for the help without allowing pride to stand in the way. I applaud you!

I think I covered it all, but if I did miss something, let me know! I'm sure others will chime in. This forum is a great place for sharing info!

[GrifTheGreat]

You did a better job than me Jess .

[Heatheranne]

Grif has given you excellent advice and has taught me tons about pacs and their care. Start with the recommendations given.

If you get his housing proper it's likely he will start eating. Things have to be accurate though or he will continue to starve himself due to stress.

It is very important that his temp, humidity, substrate, treated water, food and vitamins are accurate and safe (as above noted).

Be sure to cover the back and two sides of his tank with dark paper or scenery. I use the vinyl window-cling like backgrounds sold in the aquarium section of my Petsmart. They have some that look like plants and trees. But, anything will do. It will help him to de-stress and make him feel secure.

I'm glad you joined the forum when you did.

Keep us posted.

You can get him straightened around, happy, and eating again .

[Heatheranne]

Great teachings Grif & Jess .

Those are great care lists for you .

[IvoryReptiles]

Grif usually beats me to it!! Great advice Grif!

[GrifTheGreat]

Maybe we should have a race!! Lol!! On your Mark!! Get set!! Post!!!!

[IvoryReptiles]

HAH!! Posted new pics........Eye Candy!!!!

[SitFrogStay]

Mkay, I have the supplements, CocoFiber, aquarium background, and Digital Temp/Humidity gadget on order.

Grif - I appreciate your information. The crickets he was eating was about the size you recommended, they were small. I'd prefer to have his main diet on earthworms... because there's a bait shop across the street from where I work. I'm without a vehicle, will be for about a years time I estimate. So pretty much I get a ride to work, and get a ride home and I'm stuck. To say I get bored is an understatement lol. I live way out in the country, the closest pet shop is 20 miles, which isn't totally out of my reach just I can't hop up and go as I please. This time last week I hitched a ride to Tulsa with some family members and we went to PetSmart. Aaand I impulse bought, so I'll accept the scolding because it was foolish of me. I seen him and it was over. So when I get my stuff straightened out and my Frog unstressed he will be more than well taken care of. I enjoy doing it.

Now they did have him in one of those little hermit crab aquariums inside a bigger aquarium. Soooo what I did after reading your post I took him out, shoved all the husk to one half of the tank and made a natural barrier in the middle with my decor. His area is now half of the tank. It only has the green terrain that come with the terrarium set on the floor. He can not burrow right now until his fiber comes in but I figured it was better than getting blocked up. I kept the husk on the other half to help me maintain the humidity. It kinda peeves me because it's what the PetSmart guy picked out for me for him to have. I am human, Imma try to get some money's worth out of it lol. He can not access it. But since I switched it this way my humidity has stayed at 80% for the past 3 hours. I don't know about temperature I think it's broken, not accurate as you said.

The bulb in it is a 50watt. I dumpster dived in my trash can to double check. >>; I also kinda....ghetto rigged the back of the tank with a plain black towel until my background gets here. To the right is the wall of plant stick and rock and to the left/front... will soon be the heating pad. I placed it under the tank (wrong again). <<;; So the front will be the only side visible. I put his water tub on the opposite side of where I'm fixing to place the pad. I hope this will do for now. If you think otherwise please let me know.

Ivory - I really appreciate you as well. I kinda already messed with his tank a little. I think I'll lay a little fiber down on his side and judge how much space he needs by his mood I supposed. But I do have a couple more questions for you, if you don't mind.

With the water, I bought a couple jugs of Natural Spring Water from the store. Will I still need to De-chlorinate it or will this be okay for him?

The lighting, I've read so many times how important it was for them to have but what you say makes sense. As long as they have their supplements they'll be fine correct?

The pics of poop - err, year please. lol. I want to make sure I'm cleaning the right stuff out. I can't say i appreciate it enough, I can only imagine how weird it must feel to take pictures of poop, lol.

Heather - Thank you as well! I ordered something similar to what you described online.


Once again I can't thank y'all enough. A lot more things make sense to me now and it's a work in progress but I will get it fixed. I'll keep things posted.

[IvoryReptiles]

Spring water can be iffy.....if the label says specifically that it is chlorine free, then it's okay. If not, keep the jugs open so that any chlorine can evaporate and wait at least 24 hours before you use it.
Lighting is a preference. Some feel it is necessary, others do not. Take Grif's advice on the bulbs to use.
Picture of poop.......took this one just for you while we did the outdoor photo session, so it is a true color photo of Poop!!



Like I said, little packets of dark matter. You should be able to see them in the hole the frog digs into.....it will leave that hole for a "fresh" one on a regular basis.

Hope I covered it!

[Namio]

"Zombie Dancing Worm Dance"

AHahahhahahaha!!! That made my day, Jessica.

[Heatheranne]

Lol!!!! :P That was funny! That's the only way mine will eat the worms...excellent description! Ha ha! Still laughing .

Yep, and you'll know the poo is poo because it smells just like, well, poo (plugging nose), lol!