New owner of a White's Tree Frog (help?)

[JadeFrog]

Hi everyone,

For my birthday in October, my brother gave me a "Blue" White's Tree Frog...He had it for about a month before he gave it to me, because he felt like it would be sold before my birthday. I love frogs and have always wanted a White's.

The little guy is about an inch maybe an inch and a half, and was given to me in a 10g tank setup. My brother said it would be a green or blue color every morning when he'd check on it. But since I have had it, it's turned brown(maybe it just doesn't like me )Is this normal? It seems like there is a tone of mixed information about what the color changes means. At first I just thought it might have been stressed on the transport, since my brother lives about an hour away, but it's been here over a month and it's never really changed back.

I was told the 10g will be fine since it's still a juvenile, and that when it gets to be 2-3 inches I'd need to upgrade to a 20g or larger. I have a background on two walls, my brother was told to use "T-Rex Jungle Bed" and thats whats in the tank now. I've been maintaining the temperature between 85-90 degrees(with a day and night light because my room gets rather cold), and humidity levels are between 50-70%, I change the water dish every night and mist the tank once in the morning and once at night. On average I can get the little guy to eat 2 small (gut loaded and calcium dusted)crickets every other day. It seems a little thin to me also, but I'm not all that sure how fat or thin it should look at this stage. I've been told to use a "feeding tank" to feed it to make sure it's eating and to offer 3 small crickets every other day. Most every morning I find him soaking in the water dish, and as soon as I change his lights over he climbs the wall into one of three hiding spots in a leafy vine.

I guess my questions are as follow:
Are my temperatures and humidity levels fine?
Is it normal for it to stay brown for so long, and if not, any suggestions on what to do?
How much should it be feed/how often? and is it too soon to feed it mealworms?
Finally just any tips or advice...

I might just be worrying for no reason. I've read a lot about them but would like to hear from others who have taken care of them and raised them first hand. Any answers/advice/tips would be greatly appreciated!

[Kurt]

Everything sounds fine. He can turn brown if he is in a dark or dimly lit enclosure. I think ealworms are fine, but not as a staple.

[IgbyKibbits]

I know that it has been some time, and that Kurt has already replied (given his expertise, I'm sure that you had a great response), but I wanted to let you know my experience with my two white's tree frogs. I have them in the same conditions obviously, being kept in the same tank, and one of them tends to always be brown while the other tends to always be green. The one that is generally brown tends to stay on the warmer side of the tank while the one that is green, tends to stay on the cooler side. I figured that I would share because I was worried about the "browner" frog as well at the beginning, but he is thriving just as well as the "green" frog.

Good luck with your newcomer! I am a new owner as well and each day, it's wonderful to learn as I watch them grow!

[JadeFrog]

Thank you guys for the reply, sorry Kurt that it took so long to send a thanks. I've been pretty busy and I'm still trying to figure out the forum (way behind times this is the first forum I've been on)...

I upgraded my tank to one of the exo terra rainforest kits, and he/she (Petrie haha) seems to like it, I'm still alittle concerned about his color as it gets extremely brown from time to time. And his diet has slimmed down over the last few weeks. I'm also just wondering if anyone can give me an idea of how fast they grow...Since October Petrie has probably grown a total of an inch(he's currently 1.75") and he still seems to be rather skinny (He was eating two to three small crickets or two small crickets and a mealworm every other day...the past two weeks I can barely get him to eat one cricket every other day and sometimes he goes two days in between feeding) I'll try posted pictures after work to see what people think about his size and see if there are any ideas to "fatten" him up so to say.

The guy at the pet store suggested a UVB light to help with his digestion and also moss to keep the humidity level more stable...any thoughts or suggestion on this too?

Thanks again for the responces so far, and good luck to you too IgbyKibbits, hope your two little guys live a long happy and healthy life too.

[John]

Jade - don't worry about a UVB light. Unfortunately for amphibian enthusiasts, most pet stores and even some book authors confuse amphibians with reptiles. Many types of reptile need UVB light in order to make Vitamin D. Amphibians are a completely different class of animals (like mammals are a completely different class of animals). There is no scientific evidence that frogs, particularly those usually kept in captivity, require UVB light to make Vitamin D. That doesn't mean you shouldn't give them a terrarium light, just that you don't need a UV light.

Regarding the moss, for larger frogs some kinds of moss (the stringy, long kind - sphagnum) can pose a digestive problem because the frog can accidentally ingest it while going for other food, and then the moss can cause an intestinal blockage, leading to the frog's death. This is very rare but it's a risk. If you want to keep the humidity up then have a nice water-absorbent substrate, plenty of plants, mist regularly and if necessary you can partially block the ventilation to keep moisture in. However don't block it too much - most tree frogs require significant turn over in air or they can develop respiratory problems.

[JadeFrog]

Thanks John for the reply. I'll have to check into alternative ways besides the moss to keep the humidity level in a good range, I don't think my substrate is doing a great job.

[Kurt]

Thank you guys for the reply, sorry Kurt that it took so long to send a thanks.

Don't worry about it.

[IgbyKibbits]

Jade -

I use a coconut based substrate (T-Rex Jungle Bed Premium Blend Forest Substrate) and after a good couple of spray downs with treated water, it really seems to hold the moisture well. Plus, I have read and heard that it's a good substrate for our messy eaters (in that, if they accidentally swallow some of the coconut, it is non-toxic and small enough in that particular blend that they will not choke). My only advice is to make sure that one or two times a week, you mix the substrate (just break it up and move it around) so that moisture doesn't collect in one area and potentially cause molding.

The other thing I did to help with humidity before we installed the water side of the tank was put a plastic covering (just a very thin plexi-glass sheet we had) on top of about 1/3 to 1/2 of the wire screen. That helped keep some of the moisture in while still providing good ventilation, but it really depends on the type of tank that you have.

Hope that helps!

[Wambli]

I guess my questions are as follow:
Are my temperatures and humidity levels fine?
Is it normal for it to stay brown for so long, and if not, any suggestions on what to do?
How much should it be feed/how often? and is it too soon to feed it mealworms?
Finally just any tips or advice...
Temp.
My Dumpys are kept at room temp our house is 72 night and day. during the day I have a florescent light on them that does produce a little heat and helps the plants grow.... they like to sit in the top of the tank by the light. At night in the winter I use a red light that gets a bit hotter that I put on top of the tank in case they get cold and the red light does not bother the night time activities... except I can see them.

Color.
mine while near the white lights are bright green to blue. when they are in there water dish or on the ground they are dark brown. when they are on the log or dark colored vines they are brown to dark green. on the plants they are lighter green to emerald. If I pick up one that is brown and hold him for a while he will turn the bright green to blue color... so I am not sure if it is mood or warmth or light... or the combo of all of it... but in a dark place they are brown.

Environment.
I have two dumpys in a 30 gallon tall with live plants and 1/2 top soil and 1/2 peat moss. I scrape off 2" of the mix once a month and add new peat moss. twice a week I turn under the soil to mix it up before feeding them. I also clean the glass and the plants at this time... I use a bit of warm water to wash the leaves of the plants. I wash the water bowl out every other day with very hot water and refill with cool water with the de-chlorine stuff.

Food.
I put 16 crickets in twice a week right after cleaning there cage so they get to know the food comes after the cleaning. so the 2 of them share 32 crickets a week... that is about the 2 crickets a day idea... but they seem to like to eat 4 or so at a time then some of the crickets hang out for a few days and then are gone. The crickets seem to leave them alone and do not bite them. or hang out by them. but maybe thats because the cage is like a forest. I dust once a week with the calcium and I have a chunk of sweet potato in the cage for the crickets to gut load on while they wait for there demise.

Handling.
I get my frogs out once a night while watching TV... I hold them each about 20 or 30 min... they seem to like it from what I can tell. I get the male out when he chirps... then the female next. then wash my hands and move on to the red eyes. seems like only my female red eye likes to be held. I have greys in one tank, red eyes in another, Bull Frogs in a pond in the basement, and my dumpys... I think the female red eye is my favorite with the dumpys next... the greys pee all the time and the bullfrogs are slimy.... but I still hold them once a week on cage cleaning day.

[JadeFrog]

Thanks Wambli

I've worried about the color a lot but it looks like other healthy white's turn brown too. I have noticed when Petrie is out of his cage and feeding that's when he turns more of a green but in his cage is where he stays more brown(during the day at least, I've not paid much attention to color at night because I have a red light on him) Maybe with some time, Petrie will finally settle into his home and I'll figure out the right conditions for him to be more than just brown all the time.

Thanks so much for all the replies, it's easing my mind and I'm starting to worry less about the little guy (now I'm just starting to get more curious as to if it is male or female)

[JadeFrog]

Thanks for all the help and advice, but sadly little Petrie didn't make it...He stopped eating for about a week and died rather quickly after he had stopped eating. I've been struggling with feeding him all along, I never felt like he was gaining weight or that he was eating as much as he should based on all the information I've read and talking to others who have them. I was told he might have just been sick all along.

But now I have found a few great and informative care guides, and have been given great advice thus far from this site. So thank you all very much who gave me some input. My only other issue now would be how to pick out a healthy frog.

[Wambli]

I got Bud and Sharron at petsmart... they let me hold them... they seemed active... and they siad the vet checks them out every week at petsmart. Your little guy small I would start with a larger whites... I love my whites... mine were about 1 1/2 to 2" when I got them.

[Kurt]

You're welcome.

[IgbyKibbits]

Jade -

I'm so sorry to hear that your frog didn't make it : ( It certainly sounds like you were doing (and trying to learn) everything you could do to set up the proper environment for him. The first time I got White's (years ago), they both passed away within two weeks. Obviously, I know now that they must have been sick when I got them but it was so hard for me to make the decision to get another pair. It took me years to make the decision to do so again because I felt so bad. BUT, I did and I wish that I made the decision earlier (though ironically not because then I wouldn't have the guys that I do now!) but needless to say, I'm sorry for your loss and I hope that it doesn't deter you from being a frog owner in the future! It really is a rewarding experience!

[JadeFrog]

Thanks Igby,
I was sad to come home from work and find he had finally passed on. I've always loved frogs and have had a fascination with them since I was young. I was extremely excited to have my first one as a pet, and I'm somewhat excited to start looking for another one or two. Since my brother bought it for me not knowing much about them, I don't think we realized he wasn't acting "normal" from the start. I have not read to many articles or posts about White's being picky eater or not wanting to eat at all unless it was linked with an illness. I gather that they are supposed to be rather easy to feed and eager to eat more than they should...Now I have a little bit better of an idea of what to look for in a healthy frog, and I plan to make sure they are bigger this time too. You have to live and learn at some point I guess, just wished the little guy would have lived a lot longer than he did.

[John]

Sorry you lost your frog, Jade. At least you're feeling positive. Some people get put off frogs completely by this sort of experience. Best of luck to you.