Dubias or crickets?

[arielgasca420]

I want to start a colony and I am not sure which one will be easiest and cheapest
I am thinking of getting dubias, but I hear the temperature is a big issue for them
I like the large crickets with the dark red heads (I do not know the name, nor could I find it online). I was successful to breed those
I was also wondering if it would happen if I had the crickets and dubias in the same container?
Any advice or experiences are greatly appreciated

[arielgasca420]

Gryllus assimilis is the cricket I am thinking of

[JeffreH]

Breed the roaches, you will not regret it.

The initial investment will be more with roaches along with the wait time to get the colony established; and yes they will need heat. But the payoff for the investment is a nutritionally superior feeder insect that does not smell, chirp, jump, bite, or require any kind of tedious care. You can leave a roach colony alone for months and they will do all of the work for you...crickets require cycling and regular cleaning to rear and breed properly. I would much rather drop the extra bit of cash and some time for the long term benefits.

I stopped breeding crickets in 2005 and began breeding roaches as staple feeder insects ever since and it is easily the best decision I have ever made for myself in the hobby. Now just buying a couple of dozen crickets here and there for variety makes me want to rip my hair out... I have no idea how I used to deal with thousands of them after culturing a variety of other feeders and species of roaches.

I would definitely purchase a few B. dubia before investing in a colony start to ensure your herps like them - they are less lively than crickets and it can be a turn off to some species. There are a variety of other roach species available to culture as well that are just as good and easy as dubia as well.

Keeping the two together would probably be bad news... G. assimilis is relatively aggressive and roaches are quite passive decomposers. You would find the crickets consuming freshly molted and newborn roaches.

Edit: I just read your other post - I hope you are not too discouraged about roaches because of the extra care they need for temperature, etc. I assure you that they are truly not difficult to rear and require much less effort than crickets. I keep wide variety of roach species (I guess you could say I'm a blattaculturist?) and tend to be very thorough with my responses when discussing them. I know it can seem like an intimidating amount of information when researching, but roaches are one of the easiest feeders to culture once you have the setup down. = )

[frogster]

2nd the dubia.....I used to go to supermarket and get some of their old fruits/veggies to feed them.Initial expense but much easier and no smell.Cheap heater on the side of the tub or put on top of fridge for free heat lol my wife hated that

[arielgasca420]

what kind of tank do i start out with? I can use an 18 gallon rubber maid but I wont be able to use a heat pad. can I lamp it or is it best to keep them in a dark area in glass?

[JeffreH]

You can use a plastic storage bin or sterilite container... opaque would be best because roaches are fairly shy and do best with things on the darker side. Also, be sure the plastic is very smooth and not that of the heavy duty bins with a texture to them or the smallest of nymphs will be able to climb up the walls. An 18 gallon bin would be perfect - You can keep a colony of several thousand mixed in that size bin, just be sure that the texture of the inside is completely smooth or you will have newborn nymphs climbing up and out.

You may also use a lamp to heat your roaches; a very well known character in the roach world uses a high wattage bulb to heat his entire rack of roach species. The only downside is lights are less efficient in terms of energy output and they can be a little bit more of a hassle to deal with but they can certainly work (10 watts of heat tape vs a 60 watt bulb that is producing unnecessary light as well). I would not keep the bulb right on the plastic of the bin - rather try to clamp it nearby and focus the bulb onto a side of the bin to make things warm in there and keep it darker... on the bright-side, while this heating may seem inconvenient, roaches like temperatures right at about the same range as crickets for optimal growth and reproduction. So even if you were breeding crickets and wanted a very high output, you can drastically increase production with heat supplementation. Insects growth rate is somewhat proportional to temperature because it influences their metabolism - crickets kept at 70 degrees may take 2 weeks longer to reach adulthood than those kept at 85-90 degrees. But I digress.

In all honestly, all you need is a bin (ventilated with a screen top or something), a heat source, egg flats/drink carrier or some similar furniture, moisture source (water crystals, salad items) and a dry food/gutload. One you have the roaches in the bin and it is of the appropriate temperature, all you need to do it ensure the dry feed stays full and offer your salad items a few times weekly just as you would to crickets for hydration. Thats it. They breed and produce live offspring, the offspring can live in harmony with the adults, and they will not stink up the bin or destroy the flats as readily as crickets. I used to clean cricket bins of 1000 every 5 days due to the smell - I can allow a roach bin of 5000 to go for several months before I notice a smell even remotely close to that of crickets or destruction of cage decor on par with them. Their frass is sterile and can be allowed to accumulate into a sort of substrate for them.

[arielgasca420]

Thanks for the awesome reply. What you said is the exact information i have collectively gathered in the past few days. I think i am ready to start my colony. The initial price cost that i am worried about is roaches themselves.
I will get an inexpensive 18 gallon high gloss storage bin cut out a 1x1 square at the top, line it with mesh, and duct tape. Im actually keeping in my closet so I can raise the 125 watt bulb, i already have, from the clothes hangar bar like i did with my plants. That way in the summer i can raise it and in the winter i can lower it accordingly. What should the humidity be? I know it kills them but at what percentage does it harm them? 30%? I have grown plants in my room that required a certain amount of lumens and humidity. It wasnt worth it just to have a natural aroma of peppermint in my room.

[JeffreH]

Again, I hate to beat this like a dead horse, but just make sure to feel the inside of the bin prior to purchase. I believe I had issues with a heavy duty "rugged" type of rubbermaid and baby nymphs climbing up the very fine texture. I'd hate to see you spend money on a bin and roaches then discover that you need a new one and have to transfer them ; ) Just make sure it is nice and smooth...generally if it is super sleek on the outside it will be a good indicator that the plastic with be nice and smooth on the inside. The texture I am talking about is almost un-tangible but it is enough for the newborn nymphs.

As for humidity: the microenvironment within the bin will be unique and can easily be adjusted. Too humid and you will note condensation, hypo-pigmentation of nymphs, and potentially mold growth. Too dry and you will have serious molting issues. Adjusting the size of the ventilation and keeping a supply of water crystals in the bin will generally keep things nice and comfortable for them. I wouldn't sweat it too much, roaches are much hardier than crickets and other feeders - but if you notice problems with molting or other indicators just mentioned, you can take counter-measures to ensure they bounce back...too humid and you can increase ventilation, too dry and you can decrease some ventilation and/or you can add a container of water in there inaccessible to raise ambient humidity (or keep more water crystals in there for moisture source). I've honestly never measured the humidity in any of my bins and it can certainly vary, but I'd wager roughly 50-65% is ideal.