Why did RETF die?

[maseta]

Hi,

I’m a new owner of red eyed tree frogs. Before this, I only owned leapard geckos. I bought two baby RETF’s from reptiledepot two weeks ago. They looked healthy when they arrived. I set them up in a 12"x12"x18" terrarium, with coconut substrate, frog moss, a log, some vines and some artificial leaves from Petco. I put distilled water in their dishes and misted them a couple times a day to keep the humidity up around 70%, although it would drop between mistings. I use a blacklight on top to keep the temperature up around 79F during the day.

It’s hard to tell, but the frogs have seemed lethargic. Maybe that’s because they’re nocturnal and I don’t seem them move too much. I can’t tell if they are eating. I put some mini mealworms in a dish. Sometimes they vanish, but I’m not sure if that’s because they escape or get eaten. I also bought a whole bunch of 1/8" crickets. I saw one of the frogs eat one, but again I have no idea what happened to the rest. They also change from bright green to ugly brown all the time.

Anyway, one of my little guys died last night while I was playing Wii right next to him. One minute trying to climb the wall, next minute on his back. The other guy seems okay to me. Does anybody know what could have happened?

Thanks,
Matt

[Kurt]

Welcome aboard. Ok first problem I see is the water. You should never use distilled water in their water bowls, it just to clean and cannot provide trace elements needed by the frogs. It is very good for misting though. Instead fill their bowl with dechlorinated tap water. You can use any brand aquarium dechlorinating solution.

Second, mealworms are not good in this situation. In my experience, red-eyed leaf frogs, Agalychnis callidryas ignore them. They are just not active enough to get their attention. The crickets will work, as will flightless fruit flies and bean weevils providing the frogs are small enough (adults will most likely ignore ff's and weevils). When dusting with vitamin and calcium powders, it is a good idea to feed just before the lights go out for the night. To do it earlier, gives the feeder insect time to clean itself before the frogs wake up.

A third possibility, could be the enclosure itself. What is it made out of? I am a breeder of Agalychnis callidryas myself and I had been losing froglets over the past few months. I was dumb-founded as to the reason why, but after talking to a much more experienced breeder, I found out it could be the cage itself that was killing them. She had told me that she was losing them at one point because the frogs' skin secretions were breaking down the poly-carbonate wall of the enclosure they were in. Faunariums/Critter keepers are made of poly-carbonate. So I switched, them to a small glass tank. The dying seems to have stopped and I am seeing some signs of improvement, like frog droppings. At the height of the die off the amount of droppings had, well, dropped off. Of course if your enclosure is glass, well I just wasted a lot your time and mine typing this.

[maseta]

Thanks Kurt. It is a glass tank. Yeah, the mealworms don't move around too much, but at least I can keep track of them. It seems the crickets get themselves lost and burrow under stuff so I can't tell if they're being eaten or not. I can see how the distilled water wouldn't be giving them minerals, but could it kill them in two weeks?

I tried to find fff's at my local petco, but they were all dead. They said they don't get shipments of them in the winter.

Thanks again.
Matt

[Kurt]

Really? All the Petco's here do. I am not sure whether the the distilled water would've killed them in two weeks. How big are these frogs (SVL)?

[maseta]

The one that is left is very tiny. It is probably less than 3/4" long. I put 13 mini mealworms in a dish last night and 13 remain today. They were warming up and starting to move around just as I turned the lights out and the frog woke up. I'm going to try to find some other kind of food today. Thanks again.
Matt

[Kurt]

I wouldn't bother trying the mealworms again.

[maseta]

So I bought 100 1/8" crickets this weekend. Saturday and Sunday nights I put about 20 crickets into the terrarium just before lights out. I wake up and there are none left. So either the frog ate them all or they all hid somewhere. I have no idea how to check if he is eating. Thanks again.

[Kurt]

Look for poo. Too find crickets that are hiding, lift up water bowls and other cage furniture.

[frog220]

So I bought 100 1/8" crickets this weekend. Saturday and Sunday nights I put about 20 crickets into the terrarium just before lights out. I wake up and there are none left. So either the frog ate them all or they all hid somewhere. I have no idea how to check if he is eating. Thanks again.

thats the exact thing to do just throw a couple in its tank before you go to bed just remember dont over feed it.