Aggressive fire bellied toads?

[emandkel]

I recently purchased 3 fire belly toads from a pet store, 2 are green and black and about 2 inches long, the other is brown and about 1 1/2 inches long. All have the reddish orange and black bellies. They are currently in a 10 gallon habitat that is roughly 1/2 land, 1/2 water.

They are aggressive to each other when feeding. One may climb on another, grab another ... I've seen a few times where one gets another by the leg. They seem to have an endless appetite -- they are always eager for food as soon as I open the lid to their habitat. I've been feeding them every other day and try to make sure each gets about 3-4 crickets each. I've fed some with tongs (which they immediately grab) and/or try to drop a cricket near them.

Is the feeding behavior normal? Should I be feeding them more? Separating them when feeding them? (if so, how do I get them without them going after my hand/fingers?)

Any advice would be appreciated. They seem to be fine together except for feeding time.

[emandkel]

Still looking for advice on this! Even the little brown one got a toe/foot of one of the green ones at feeding time last night. They are now in a 20-long aquarium that is still about 1/2 water, 1/2 land. Also, any comments on the setup would be appreciated. The water part has java moss in it and is about 1 1/2 to 2 inches at the deepest; a waterfall area at the left, otherwise used large gravel plus sheet and frog moss covering most of the gravel for the upper land part. The waterfall area is really a reptofilter at the back left, then I built up the area beneath the water output area with a hideout thing, slate and rocks on top and around it.

[mshine1217]

I've been feeding them every other day and try to make sure each gets about 3-4 crickets each. I've fed some with tongs (which they immediately grab) and/or try to drop a cricket near them.

Is the feeding behavior normal? Should I be feeding them more? Separating them when feeding them? (if so, how do I get them without them going after my hand/fingers?)

Any advice would be appreciated. They seem to be fine together except for feeding time.

Do you limit them to just 3-4 crickets or are you letting them eat as many as they want? I usually throw several crickets per toad and let them eat as much as they want and then take out the extras. They may not be getting enough and are food aggressive.

[emandkel]

Do you limit them to just 3-4 crickets or are you letting them eat as many as they want? I usually throw several crickets per toad and let them eat as much as they want and then take out the extras. They may not be getting enough and are food aggressive.

I've read to limit them to 3 - 4 each, but I may be feeding more than that. I dump a few in at a time but try to make sure each one gets at least 3 or so crickets. I want them to get enough to eat, but not too much so they will get fat. They seem to be always ready for food.

[emandkel]

How much is too much? I put in around 2 dozen crickets the day before yesterday and they ate all they could find, and still seemed hungry for more. The crickets do tend to find hiding places around rocks, the filter, under the moss -- hard to get out so I left a couple of crickets in there being pretty sure once the frogs saw them they would try to catch them and eat them. Tonight I put in about 2 dozen again, and they are eagerly eating them, and still being aggressive about it.

If they are overeating, how do I tell when they are too fat (so to feed a bit less)? They have plump bellies from the other day's feeding.

Edit: A picture of the two green ones after tonight's feeding (can't tell too well but they have roundish bellies):

[rivkah]

Overall your tank looks good, but I have a couple of questions;

It appears that you have hydroball (clay pellets) under the gravel separated by some sort of divider in the water section: why?

My firebelly toad tank was also about half land/half water, but I kept the water level around 4-5 inches deep, with easy access into and out of the water section. My toads not only loved to swim, but also appeared to enjoy actually diving into the water area. It also, appears that, with all that java moss, your toads are unable to actually swim anywhere.

You might want to consider making your life a little easier and remove alot of the excess (gravel, hyrdoballs and java moss), which would open up the water area which will make water changes easier.

I agree with Karen, your toad's behavior sounds like they are hungry. I strongly believe in books and doing research, but the toads are individiuals, and only through trial and error will you learn just how much to enough to feed yours.

This is part of the fun of keeping them.

[emandkel]

I put in the hydroballs mainly for the filter, I didn't want to clog it with gravel. I've found some of the hydroballs will float. I covered that "layer" with a substrate barrier then put gravel on top. The green part is gravel from a previously established aquarium which I put in there to help break down any waste products. But most is large gravel "river rock" which I thought was big enough not to be a danger to the frogs. I do have quite of bit of java moss in the water section which would inhibit swimming. Again, it was put in there mainly to help with breaking down any waste products.

Their "first" setup was a Lees Herp Habitat (with an elevated land area) where I had 2 inches of water around the bottom plus rocks to climb out of the water. They did not seem to like being in the water without being able to touch the bottom and stayed mainly at the water edge around the rocks at the bottom. In this setup I've seen them spread out in the java moss, or "buried" a bit in the water with their head out.

But I could try building up the land area more so that I can add more water, which would make it deeper.

[rivkah]

to keep gravel or other things from getting sucked into the inlets of filters I have done a couple of things: I have used tule, the sheer fabric used to make bridal veils available at any fabric store for less than $1.00 per yard, and it comes in many colors. (It is also the best thing available for wiping down the sides of a fish tank and removing any algae growth) I wraped some around the bottom covering the inlets and secured it with a rubber band or string. By doing this, I use hardly any substrate in the water section, making keeping that portion clean much easier.

I have also threaded java moss through plastic canvas (used for needlepoint) then made it into a box to cover inlets to protect small fish from being sucked into filters. Over time the moss attaches itself to the plastic canvas, making a living wall.

I believe in making things as easy to maintain as possible, while still providing the best possible housing for the creature, allowing me more time to simply enjoy my charges. Oftentimes, the easier the maintenance, the more often it will get done. I have seen fire belly toads keep in mostly aquatic with 4-6 inches of water and very little land area (1/4 land - 3/4 water). I have also seen them housed in what I called primariy "dry" with only wet "moss" or "cage carpet" and only a dish of water to sit in. Basically there is no "one right way" to house your toads (there are, of course very wrong ways). The enclosure also should be something that you enjoy looking at, otherwise it could get ignore.

I love firebelly toads... they can be so comical. Give them something to do, somewhere to go and they will reward you with years of delight.

[emandkel]

Thanks for your input. I have plastic canvas around the filter base, makes it easy to take the entire filter out without disturbing the gravel and rocks around it, but I never thought about tule. I wanted a waterfall in the aquarium, thus the reason for the build up around the filter (although it makes it just a waterfall, too much gravel I think to filter it). But I may end up redoing it. I did add some water to make the water part a bit deeper (not much, but maybe an inch) and so far they are staying more of the land area. If they seem to like deeper water, I'll make sure it's deeper. Right now, it appears like they prefer it to be more shallow.

[emandkel]

I redid my FTB aquarium to give them a section of deeper water. Still not sure they will use it, but now they have the option of going in there.

My FTB's would eat 6+ crickets a day if I let them. Still not sure how much is too much such that it could cause issues (constipation or just getting fat), but am putting about 3 dozen in there at least every other day and they eat them all up quickly. There's still some aggression/eager eaters but it seems to have decreased.

The "deep" section is around 2" deep. A picture of their new setup (completed tonight):

[FrogNoobie659]

It's common for Fire Belly Toad's to fight while it's "Feeding Time"
It just means that your Fire Belly Toad is in good condition.
Don't worry about it, unless they are hurting each other badly.

[Froggie85]

Can I ask you where you got you light ? and what kind is it ? Im new to fire bellies as well and sometimes mine will just hide and not eat sometimes they do . I am thinking its the size I use medium crickets not sure if that ok I think the bigger the fuller they are lol . I like your tank set up Ill show you mine . I started off with stuff like the moss etc but they would get it there mouth while hunting crickets so I took it out . all I have is rocks a tetrafuana waterfall filter and fake plants .

I am so sad that when its feeding time they dont jump towards me to feed they just run and hide :/

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