American toad woes...skinny toads, tongues seem 'broken,' resorting to force feeding.

[nicodimus22]

Hey gang. I have been having feeding issues with my two American toads the last couple of months. It's gotten terrible in the last 3 weeks or so. They have gotten so skinny that it looks really bad. I keep them around 70 degrees F and between 30%-50% humidity, in a 20g tank with about 2" of coconut fiber substrate. They have a medium-large water bowl with ramp to soak in, and some leaves and half logs to hide under. I always feed them in a separate container so that I can know for sure what they eat. They are approximately 1 year old and about 1.5 inches long.

I used to feed them flightless fruit flies when they were babies, and they snapped them up like candy. They graduated to small crickets a few months ago, and seemed to have no issues mowing them down...they were like little ninjas on the hunt. What's happening lately is this...one at a time, I put them into a bowl with a small cricket. They immediately perk up, their back toes start vibrating, and they hop right over to it. And this is where the trouble starts. Neither one of them seems to be able to use its tongue any more. They try, but nothing happens. They blink and their body contracts, and their mouths open a little, and you can hear a little 'pop' but no tongue. They try over and over to eat the cricket that is 1/4 inch in front of their face, but they just can't do it. They act interested and hungry, but unable to eat. I have left them for hours with a cricket right in front of their face and they were not able to eat.

The other night, I couldn't stand to watch this any more, so I decided to give force feeding a go. They HATE it. I'm not a big fan of it either, but I feel like they are starving to death and I need to intervene. I force fed them a second time tonight (just 1 small cricket each, dusted with Repashy's supplement powder.) I am hoping that I'm not choking them or damaging their tiny mouths with my fingernail during this process.

It seems very unlikely that they would both develop the same issue at the same time, but that is what I'm seeing. I am open to any helpful ideas. Should I keep doing this every other night? Should I be forcing them to eat more than one cricket? Has anyone seen the 'broken tongue' thing before? Thanks.

[kueluck]

That is so sad. I've read about Vit A deficiency which makes the toads unable to produce the mucus needed to make the sticky stuff on their tongs. If you're hearing the popping sound the tongue may be coming out, just so fast that you can not see it. Do you feed just crickets? If so, try some night crawlers or turkish roaches. Have you tried feeding from tweezers?

[nicodimus22]

Interesting about the Vit A thing. I have just been feeding small crickets, gutloaded with Fluker's high calcium cricket food/carrot slices and dusted with Repashy's ICB+ so I hope they are getting decent nutrition. I think the issue at this point is not so much finding a food they like, as they. Already seem quite eager to eat, but overcoming their inability to do it.

I think the little pop I'm hearing is just the seal on their lips breaking. I could always see the tongue before. I have tried feeding from tweezers, and the same thing happens. They want it, they try, but no tongue comes out.

Do you think I should force feed more than one cricket, or more frequently than every other night? I assume they should keep growing and might need more because of that, but on the other hand I don't want to overstuff them.

[kueluck]

I would try some worms, since I've seen mine actually jump on them and use their front feed to push it into their mouth. Other than that I don't know what to tell you. I personally would take them to the vet to make sure it's not something else.

[Wormwood]

or pill bugs/rolly pollies.. which can be found under any log or rock near where you live.

[nicodimus22]

Update: One of my toads seems to have perked up after a couple of force feedings, and ate 2 crickets by itself tonight (just pounced on them, tongue still doesn't work.) It looks better too.



^Can anyone tell from this picture if this is a male? I see what might be nuptial pads on the front toes.


The other one continues to worsen and is very skinny. It also just seems to have no energy...it's just limp when I pick it up. I will continue to force feed it and hope it improves. I did a search for amphibian vets in my area and found nothing (rural Pennsylvania can suck sometimes.)

[nicodimus22]

Update: Still force-feeding one of the toads 3 dusted small crickets every night. The other one is eating on its own. They're both about 1.5 inches long. Still can't really tell the gender of either one.

[Kurt]

Sounds like a vitamin A deficiency. Make sure the supplement you are using has vitamin A, as not all do.

[GrifTheGreat]

If you can find Rep-Cal Herptivite you can easily administer them with Vitamin A without worry of Vitamin A toxicity due to that vitamin being easily overdosed on. Herptivite has Vitamin A converted into Beta Carotene so you don't overdose your frogs with Vitamin A.

I hope they both reach full recovery.

[nicodimus22]

I am dusting with Repashy's ICB+ which has Vitamin A as both Retinol and Beta Carotene, so I don't think it's a Vitamin A deficiency. I have not tried other foods because the toad is still trying to eat what I'm giving it, it just can't get its tongue to work. Worms seem like they would be too large in relation to the size of the toad (1.5 inches long) even if it could eat those without using the tongue.

[GrifTheGreat]

I am dusting with Repashy's ICB+ which has Vitamin A as both Retinol and Beta Carotene, so I don't think it's a Vitamin A deficiency. I have not tried other foods because the toad is still trying to eat what I'm giving it, it just can't get its tongue to work. Worms seem like they would be too large in relation to the size of the toad (1.5 inches long) even if it could eat those without using the tongue.

You can cut pieces off the worms starting from the tail and offer them to your toads. Have you tried tong feeding?

[nicodimus22]

The toad I have been force feeding for the last couple of months passed away yesterday. The other toad is doing great, and now has a 20 gallon tank all to himself. Thanks for all the help even though it didn't end well for one of them.

[kueluck]

Very sad to hear, but then you did what you could do. Hope the other one continues to do well.

[nicodimus22]

Fat and happy, as a toad should be.

[kueluck]

Nice.