One cloudy eye-then 3 yrs later the other eye goes cloudy

[FBTmom]

Hello,
When we rescued our two FBT's from my son's gr. 4 classroom 3yrs ago, one of the toads had a cloudy eye. Considering the bad living conditions these two were in (a plastic betta container for 2yrs plus kids poking at them) I figured it was an injury.
Now, 3yrs later, the other eye has gone cloudy! Plus the 2nd toad has one cloudy eye now. A 3rd toad we purchsed about 2yrs ago has clear eyes. All three are in the same tank.
From what I've read, it sounds like it could be some sort of fungal infection, but maybe not. I do regular water changes, and I use dechlorinator each time. They live in a 35 gal. tank that's 60% (heated) water, 40% land. The toads are fed every 3-5 days, having two to three crickets each. The one with two cloudy eyes has trouble with his aim (my son hand feeds them all), but my son touches his mouth with the cricket, then moves it half an inch away so he can get it. He still has a good appetite. This toad also spins a lot in the water, and he's not as actively moving about the tank as he used to be. It's like he can't see properly, if at all so, he just stays put most of the time in the water. He used to watch us move all over the house like the other two do, following our movements, but not anymore. Sometimes he'll sense us near, or we'll have our hand in the tank to adjust a rock or something, and he'll jump up, like he's thinking were're holding food out for him and he's trying to grab it.
The 2nd toad with one cloudy eye hasn't changed his behavoiur, but his other eye is still clear so I'm not sure if he has limited sight in the cloudy eye or not. If I move my finger on either side of his head, he ignores me or takes off.

I live in a small town with a vet that knows nothing about anything except cats and dogs. Our pet store has no idea, nor do they have anything except basic fish meds. I wouldn't know what to use anyway, or what to do, since I have no idea what could be wrong.

Could putting too much dechlorinator in the water harm them? I use AquaPlus. I also keep a bucket full of water, without declorinator, near their tank so I can top up the water in between changes, if needed, but it always sits at least 24 hrs before I'll use it so the chlorine will be gone.
I just don't know what to do or even where to start. I'm so worried the second frog is going to get the cloudiness in his second eye. Or frog #3 will get it.

If anyone has a suggestion, I would be so grateful. I'm so worried about these guys, and I feel so awful thinking they may be losing their sight. It's so frustrating living in a small town sometimes! If there's any way to clear this up and fix it............

Thanks so much,
Diane

[FBTmom]

I'm really hoping someone has an idea as to why my toad's eyes are clouding over. I want to treat this, if possible, and other threads I've read about it, plus research on the internet, are giving me conflicting opinions. The two toads are getting worse and I don't know how to help them. I don't want to guess on the treatment and get it wrong, thus hurting these little guys. Nor do I want my toads going blind.
I just did a water change today, and the one toad with the two cloudy eyes was freaked. I think it's because he can't see, because water changes have never bothered him before. He used to play with the water vacuum when I sucked water out.
This is getting worse fast.

[KayIS]

Diane,

I have a similar situation - our toad's first eye went cloudy, we tried gentamicin sulfate and maracyn 2 (minocycline) with no luck, not to mention the usual saline drops, etc. He seemed stable but now, 5 months' later, the good eye is now clouding over. The description of behaviour, etc. is identical to what I am experiencing. I combed through the local university's biology department, and the local zoo, looking for herpetologists. The curator at the local zoo emailed me a link to http://www.pollywogsworldof frogs.com/Text-html/frong-rx-fungal.html and under "cloudy eyes" it states that this is caused by a bacteria called chryseobacterium, and to treat it, you need to use methelene blue full strength as eyedrops, 2x/day for 3 days. Spray 5% solution of Baytril (bayer corporation liquid formulation, active ingredient is enrofloxacin) on the frog FIRST before using the methelene blue. The site claims your froggies will be fine in 3 days or so.

I just found this information, so I will be heading to my vet armed with this information on Monday. Meanwhile, quarantine the affected toads if you can. You can use Wiki and look up chryseobacterium, as well as a second possible aeromonas hydrophila, both are gram negative, rod shaped bacteria, I suspect both will respond to the use of a floxacin. WHile I am surprised that the gentamicin and minocycline were unsuccessful (both attack gram negative bacteria), I have read that chryseobacterium is resistant to many forms of antibiotics.

You need to go to the vet to get a prescription - you cannot by Baytril without one. If you need to, draw up a waiver and sign it, telling your vet you absolve him/her from responsibility should the toads get sick or die because of the treatment. From what I read, this bacterial infection is likely lethal in the long run. THe waiver is probably the only way a reluctant vet will help you out. I am a lawyer, make sure your waiver is clear that you will not sue the vet for whatever the outcome is.

Good luck. I will be back next week to report in.

[FBTmom]

Wow, KayIS, thanks for the great info!! I'm going to do a bunch of reading on the site you linked me and head into the vet's with an armload of info. I'm not too optomistic about our local vet, but I'm sure going to try. And I'll have to see if I can get the methelene blue here. I've never even heard about it.
I really appreciate your help with this, and I can't wait to hear your report. I'll report as well after I talk to the vet and see if I can get any of this stuff.

Diane

[KayIS]

Wow, KayIS, thanks for the great info!! I'm going to do a bunch of reading on the site you linked me and head into the vet's with an armload of info. I'm not too optomistic about our local vet, but I'm sure going to try. And I'll have to see if I can get the methelene blue here. I've never even heard about it.
I really appreciate your help with this, and I can't wait to hear your report. I'll report as well after I talk to the vet and see if I can get any of this stuff.

Diane

Diane,

have been treating my toad for 2.5 days now, there is some improvement, but the spot hasn't gone away completely. If anything, though, the rest of his eye looks remarkably better. I amusing the oral Baytril in liquid form. I am going to dose him for one more day, and if he isn't better - I will be taking him to see a specialist vet from the local zoo. Unfortunately, most amphibians are out of luck if they get sick. My local vet said they rarely see amphibians, which is why this is so hard.

Signs of poisoning: strange uncoordinated behavior - baytril is strong stuff, if you see this you need to stop treating your toads!

I am going to sterilize my tanks in the meantime. The paranoia about the rest of the toads getting sick is very high.

Any luck on your end?

K

[FBTmom]

Hi Kay,

I have had no luck with my vet, but I haven't given up yet.

Are you following what you originally wrote, using the methelene blue drops for the eyes, and spraying the Baytril on the toad first? Or is there a different routine you're following?

In the meantime, would you recommend trying the Maracyn (or something small pet stores would carry) in the off chance it'll stop or slow the progression of the infection? I have three toads in the tank (it's a 50/50 land water setup). One of the toads has perfectly clear eyes, but I'm thinking the Maracyn wouldn't hurt him since he has already been exposed to infection? I don't want to move him to my other (healthy) toad tank, obviously, because he may be carrying the infection even though his eyes are still clear. I'm not sure how to dose with this medicine for toads. I used it once for my fish, but the instructions in the package were for fish.

I'm not sure what to do. I haven't given up on trying your treatment advice. I'm heading out of town this weekend for a day, so I'll try other vets, but if I strike out, I'd like to at least try something over the counter. I'd just need some guidance on dosage and methods.

Thanks, Kay, and I have my fingers crossed for you. I'm frustrated with my vet, but if it isn't a cat or dog, it's a waste of time with him. It's a helpless feeling watching my two toads lose their sight.

Diane