petstore housing pyxie with white's treefrog...

[Bolisnide]

I'm feeling so disturbed by what I've seen recently in a locally owned petstore..
A pyxie about the size of my fist housed with 2 white's tree frogs in a 12x12x12 enclosure. No plants, only a dirty dish of water and some moist coco fiber substrate.

Questions for everyone:
I desperately want to 'save' the 2 white's, but do you all feel this only supports bad husbandry in petstores?
How have the white's been effected by being housed with a pyxie in such a small space with only one water sourse?
Will the white's eventually fall ill? Will they be eaten? Should I call the local humane society?

[Cocinecro]

I wouldn't go so far as calling the humane society, they probably won't bother with it. Unfortunately this is a pretty common occurrence, a lot of pet stores don't know how to keep their pets properly. I've seen similar situations happen before. The best thing you could do would be to tell them that they are not taking care of them properly and offer advice. If it's a locally owned pet store they might be more willing to listen to you on how to keep their animals. They may (unfortunately) not care about the animals, but every business understands their products dying before they can sell them. If they won't listen to you out of compassion for the animals, they will if they think it will hurt their wallets. Try suggesting that they read up on the animals they are trying to sell. Maybe even print out some care sheets for them, or if you're really concerned, offer to set up a tank for them. They'll probably be glad for the help and let you use materials they have in the shop. Even a quick set up with separate enclosures, some fake vines, coco fiber substrate, thermometer/hydrometer and a heat source would be better than what they have now.
If they won't listen to good advice then take other measures to not support bad husbandry. Call the humane society. They may not do anything for the frogs, but if they're not keeping the frogs correctly they probably are not taking care of the other animals correctly either. No pet store would want the humane society called on them, that would be business suicide if word got around. Try other places too, Better Business Bureau, leave a bad review on Yelp or elsewhere online. I wouldn't take these steps unless really necessary. It could be that they are not knowledgeable on keeping frogs and need to be educated. They may have no idea they're doing anything wrong.

If you're wanting to save the whites, I would make sure they're not already too far gone to be saved. You can take them home but be ready to take care of a sick frog with a proper set up for them.

Best of luck!

[Bolisnide]

Thank you for all the advice! I was truly feeling so torn on what to do.
I think I will offer some help, rather than 'reporting' these guys. I know for a fact that the bottom line is what matters to them (unfortunately).
And realistically, I can't get any more frogs at the moment. I have no quarantine tanks, and very little space (plus my husband already thinks I'm nuts).
Thanks again.

[kueluck]

I agree with Cocinecro, first approach the store owner, then if they blow you off take em’ down and report the store to the local Human Society and any local reptile rescue, they will really come down hard on them.

[KingCam]

The store owner will likely be glad to know those frogs will eat each other, after all, he paid for them to be there, right? Why would he want them to eat each other? It's probably just a simple (all too common) case of total ignorance on the matter. My local pet store recently lost about a dozen green anoles they were housing with the biggest whites tree frog I've ever seen.

[Bolisnide]

The store owner will likely be glad to know those frogs will eat each other, after all, he paid for them to be there, right? Why would he want them to eat each other? It's probably just a simple (all too common) case of total ignorance on the matter. My local pet store recently lost about a dozen green anoles they were housing with the biggest whites tree frog I've ever seen.

Good Point!

[Bolisnide]

I agree with Cocinecro, first approach the store owner, then if they blow you off take em’ down and report the store to the local Human Society and any local reptile rescue, they will really come down hard on them.

I'm totally with you, Gail!
I'm a cpa, I wouldn't dare do accounting without doing my research first!!! Why in the world would someone specialize in a field, get paid for it, and not do the research FIRST! And when there are animals suffering because of their lack of research, it just really boils my blood

[flybyferns]

Hi,

" I have no quarantine tanks, and very little space (plus my husband already thinks I'm nuts)." lol

I had a similar experience. The little pet shop where I occasionally buy crickets, got RETFs last fall "for Christmas". Whatever that means?
They were really cold, no heat source ( by the door) , dry as a bone, and in a little 12x12 w/ pine chips !!!!. I nearly died!!! I had my 2 albinos in quarantine at the time.
These people simply did not have a clue ! When I was looking at the ( having my little panic attack ) the kid who worked there came over and was excited about having them at the shop. So, I politely explained about all the problems. He was, actually, very concerned. Together, we collected everything they needed and fixed the poor little guy's enclosure. By the time I left they were really comfy? God knows where the poor frogs ended up though

Lynn

[InfinitysDaughter]

This just irks me. I dont understand stores that get animals they dont know how to care for. At the petsmart where I work (though I know its not the same at all petsmarts, sadly) we have a certification program that associates have to go threw before there aloud to handle anything in what we call "specialty" (frogs, snakes, reptiles, fish, birds, small mammals). I've been pushing since Christmas to go threw the training but still havn't gotten the go ahead but because of my obsession with our cold blooded critters I'm often asked to help if customers need help (just cant legally do the purchasing contract).

The specialty people are expected to know what there doing. While dog and cat can get away with some yahoos (though I take a lot of pride in knowing as much as possible about everything we carry from food to toys ect), specialty is expected to know everything from how warm tropical fish tanks need to be to what kind of bedding is actually harmful to rats. People go to petstores with the idea we know what we are doing so we should know what we're doing. We actually just gont in a pair of itty bitty bumble bee toads and Lori spent weeks making sure she and everyone in her department knew what they needed (though it was still a shock when we got them and they were so tiny!).

It my opinion that if you dont know what your doing you should not be responsible for an animals care. Its not like they can tell you what your doing wrong.

I hope the owner is willing to listen to you, Bolisnide. If not I'd hope there is someone in charge at the local humane society that would be willing to do something. The one in my area only cares about dogs and cats and until I started working where I am I never knew how many reptiles are abandoned or abused around here. Most of my co workers pets are rescued from bad situations (like Lori's new Iguana who's owners were just going to set it free in the back yard if she didn't take it because it got too big! D: ) I wish you luck and pray for all three of the little ones.

[Bolisnide]

Update, for anyone that would like to know....
So, I did offer some friendly advice to the petstore owner. I kindly explained to him that the white's should be in a different enclosure (at the very least). I brought in some printed care sheets for both pyxies and white's, and even offered to assist in creating a separate enclosure for the white's...
I really tried to remain friendly and remind him that if the frogs were to perish, it would be his pocket book that would suffer.
And, to my deep surprise, he looked at me as though I were a crazy frog woman and giggled under his breathe. He said this is how he always housed his frogs, with out any problems what-so-ever.
I reminded him that he has had a problem, the death of one of my white's that I purchased from him! See link for a history on the death of one of frogs purchased from him: http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-treefrog.html

I'm so sad! How should I proceed?

[GrifTheGreat]

If it were me I would buy either both Whites or the Pyxie . someone here would buy them from you if you post them for sale. This guy is obviously a bafoon. and has now idea what he is doing. Anyone with simple knowledge about these two species or frogs ingeneral has far greater experience than this moron.

[Bolisnide]

If it were me I would buy either both Whites or the Pyxie . someone here would buy them from you if you post them for sale. This guy is obviously a bafoon. and has now idea what he is doing. Anyone with simple knowledge about these two species or frogs ingeneral has far greater experience than this moron.

I completely agree; he's a bafoon! The pyxie is his personal pet, made very clear to me that he is NOT for sale. But my concern in purchasing the treefrogs is that this is only supporting his outrageous operation. But I do want to save the poor things. I was tossing the idea around in my head of purchasing the frogs (which by the way are $40/frog, and then reporting him to some sort of animal humane society or possibly a reptile/herp rescue. I need to do research first to see if there is even a reptile rescue in my area...
I hate being a tattle tail, but this is just too sad...
Also in his store, he has many snakes that are being housed in shoe box sized containers on a rack. Because I know nothing about snakes, I didn't say anything in regards to them, and I have no idea if this is common practice in the snake trade. But I really feel that at this point someone with some authority needs to go in and evaluate his business.

[helm96]

So sad to see stuff like this. Petco was keeping their Whites at the wrong temp and humidity. I notified the manager and she asked me to sit down with her and explain what all the needs were. The next time I went in she took my advice and the temp was lower and the humidity was up. It was great to see them change this stuff. Its nice to know that they hire people who at least care enough to make the changes needed.

[froggirlfbt]

I just bought a fire belly toad for my son. He also has 3 toads tat e caught outside...can they be housed together? Prob a dumb question but just wanted to double check.

[kueluck]

I would not purchase them since this is going to encourage the store to keep doing things the wrong way. It's hard to turn your back on them, but if you can get an authority involved it will save them and others down the road. Contact the human society in your area. This is not being a tattle tail, its standing up for the rights of animals.

[Bolisnide]

I would not purchase them since this is going to encourage the store to keep doing things the wrong way. It's hard to turn your back on them, but if you can get an authority involved it will save them and others down the road. Contact the human society in your area. This is not being a tattle tail, its standing up for the rights of animals.

Thanks Gail... I have contacted both the humane society and a reptile rescue, haven't heard back yet. Will keep everyone posted.