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  1. #1
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Hi All,
    Dr. Frye sent me an email that I wanted to share with you all as to medications one should have on hand in case your frog is needing medical attention and a vet is no where to be found.
    Dr Frye is very nice and willing to assist but it is highly recommended that photos be attached to the email if your looking for assistance.
    Dr Frye can be contacted at dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com

    The meds listed below can be bought from Dr Frye if you live in the U.S. Note that prices may have changed since this was sent to me. If you live outside the U.S. you can track down a local vet and purchase the items.

    Here is the email I received:
    As a first aid kit, I strongly recommend having a few drugs on hand at all times. That way when a medical problem arises, you just need to contact me, and I can steer you down the right path.

    Metronidizole is an antibacterial, antiprotozoal, and APPETITE STIMULANT. It is $30 per 100 mLs.

    Silversulfadiazene is a topical antibiotic and antifungal that promotes healing while discouraging scarring. It should be used on ALL skin lesions and costs $34 per ounce.

    Baytril is a strong systemic antibiotic that needs to be mixed carefully. It costs $24 per ounce and is mixed according to the size of the frog treated. Only a few drops are used daily.

    Panacur is a powdered dewormer. It is very safe and easy to use and costs $14 per spoonful.

    Shipping costs $11 for Priority on any order that includes one of the liquid medications. If you purchase Panacur alone, shipping costs $2. I can not ship medications outside of the United States.

    You can pay by PayPal at dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com , or by calling my office at 734-439-2273 and paying via credit card over the phone.
    My hospital is not open on Wednesdays, so please take that into account.

    End of email
    Last edited by DonLisk; April 26th, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

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  3. #2
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    This is super !
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
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  4. #3
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I would like to add that one item to also keep on hand is Neosporin WITH pain reliever. I only say this since you may have to (we hope not) euthanize one of your friends, but making it wait and in pain makes it just take much harder on both you and the frog if you have to go buy it when its needed.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

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  6. #4
    Tubby0512
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    But if you poison your frog with the pain killer Neosporin that's cruel. So have him suffer from being poisoned. If I had to put down a frog i'll go with a shot. Its faster and he won't suffer from being poisoned.

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    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks Don! Great post!
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  8. #6
    Owler
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    This is brilliant, however, is there no way of shipping to the UK?

  9. #7
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by Owler View Post
    This is brilliant, however, is there no way of shipping to the UK?
    Myles,
    At least you have the list of medications he recommends keeping on hand !
    I'm sure you could purchase equivalents approved for the same use in the UK.
    You could email him? Perhaps he would still answer any questions you might have regarding the need to use one of these drugs?
    Don't know.
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  10. #8
    Owler
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Yup, this is a plus

    Already spoken to a few vets, they can't sell me anything without seeing what is wrong with the animal first - such a pain.

    Sorry, I got a bit excited when I saw this, those prices are really good!

    To give you an idea of my pain, I forked out £25 for seeing the vet then £95 for 60ml of Tamodine for my iguana - wish I lived in the states and not on a small rock in the middle of the Irish sea sometimes

  11. #9
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Myles,
    Why don't you try emailing him?
    I have done business with him recently. He seems very busy .
    However, very caring as well.
    If he had the time he might be able to get back to you???? (please understand-I would never take the liberty to say he would do this)
    Just a thought?
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  12. #10

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by Owler View Post
    Yup, this is a plus

    Already spoken to a few vets, they can't sell me anything without seeing what is wrong with the animal first - such a pain.

    Sorry, I got a bit excited when I saw this, those prices are really good!

    To give you an idea of my pain, I forked out £25 for seeing the vet then £95 for 60ml of Tamodine for my iguana - wish I lived in the states and not on a small rock in the middle of the Irish sea sometimes
    Hello,

    I should point out that there is a very good reason for seeing the animal - it is incredibly irresponsible, in my view, to dispense a medication (all medications being drugs, with potential side effects, interactions with other drugs, appropriate/inappropriate use issues) without being as reasonably sure as you can be that the correct drug, in the correct dosage, is being used for an appropriate condition. You can't really do that without seeing the animal, assessing its husbandry and examining it. Hence the legal requirement in the UK to see the animal. Obviously if the vet knows you and is happy that you know what you're doing, won't make a mistake with medication dosing etc he/she may be happy to dispense more freely. But with a complete stranger who just asserts "I know what I'm doing"? How responsible do you think it would be of the vet to give out medicines in that case? NO drugs lack side effects, although obviously their relative safety will vary.

    As a vet, I am responsible for the effects of a drug I advise or dispense (unless administered contrary to my instructions/advice) - if I just said give your frog x mls of panacur, for example, and someone used a completely different preparation/concentration of panacur than the one I'm thinking of and kills the animal, then that's my fault. Or if I said, "oh, yes, that could be an abscess, here's some antibiotic" to someone just describing a lump on their frog, again that would be completely irresponsible if it died of a tumour (or indeed abscess) that could have been easily removed surgically.

    In the example from another recent post, a white lump on the back of a frog, a bacterial abscess is the likeliest cause. But it could be a other things (fungal abscess, mycobacterial abscess, parasitic cyst, neoplasia, cyst, hernia or others), in which cases antibiotics are not beneficial (and could be harmful by disrupting the animal's natural skin, gut or other bacterial flora - natural skin bacteria are an important part of the animal's defences, including against chytrid). Similarly without testing you could miss the fact that the animal has mycobacteriosis (similar organisms to "fish tuberculosis") which can affect humans - again, something the vet has a responsibility to discuss with you.

    It is worth noting that many of these could only be determined by further testing - which costs money I'm afraid. Professional services and advice costs money - if you can't or are unwilling to afford that, don't keep pets - if you do, that's irresponsible in my book. It is that simple.

    Too many people moan over £25 vet consult, yet would (ok maybe not happily : ) pay far more for a plumber, builder etc. Obviously tests can be discussed as to their costs and benefits with the vet - but if you refuse the tests, you may prevent the vet getting the correct diagnosis and treatment (in the example, say fungal rather than bacterial abscess), which may kill your amphibian.

    Sorry, but these people that think they 5 or 6 years in vet school is irrelevant and they can just throw drugs at an ill animal with no sort of diagnosis causes so much animal suffering. I'm certainly not discounting practical experience of keepers, and it is often a cooperative effort between keeper and vet to determine the best course of action (stress of medication issues may often make the medically ideal course of treatment inadvisable, for example). But selecting the appropriate medication in the appropriate preparation, dosing the appropriate amount and frequency, by an appropriate route of administration relies on a large body of background knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pharmacology and pathology as well as clinical examination, possible laboratory tests and other diagnostics. It's not just throw a drug at the animal. As a UK vet, I see the reasoning behind the requirement for seeing the animl, and it seems to make very good sense to me!

    Not saying that all vets are wonderful, or that they will necessarily be able to help all animals. But they have the appropriate training (in general terms - obviously not all vets have further knowledge about amphibians by any means!). And I accept that some people do not have practical access to suitably trained/interested vets (although I don't accept it for most of the UK), in which case some compromise may be necessary. But are "I can't afford £10 consult fee", or "I can't be bothered to travel 10 minutes" (both of which I've heard, the second even with no consult fee for amphibians) acceptable excuses? If the alternative is no care for the animal, then the vet has to make an individual decision as to the animal's best interests - but owner unwillingness to spend a little money or put in a little effort should not be a factor in determining whether the animal is healthy and happy and gets appropriate care.

    Of course I'm not saying all amphibians that stop eating for a day or go slightly off colour, such as many examples on this site, need to go to a vet. Discussion of and modifying the environment is often an entirely appropriate first step if there is a mild problem with the animal.

    In terms of drugs, if you're in the UK, you should be aware that it is technically illegal to import prescription only veterinary drugs without a prescription, and illegal for a supplier to supply them to you without a prescription.

    Sorry, off soapbox now. But please bear in mind that if a vet takes on treatment of an animal, he/she takes on responsibility for the health of that animal, and must act appropriately and responsibly. If you haven't assessed the husbandry of the animal, observed it and physically examined it, then I would suggest you are not really in a position to responsibly advise on its diagnosis and treatment.

    Hope this helps,

    Bruce.

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  14. #11
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    If it's ok, I'd like to speak a bit also...

    I agree good vet advice and treatment with an exam is best. Exotic vets can be hard to find.

    I too had trouble when I brought home a beat-up retf with scratches that were infected and some areas abscessed, from a local pet store. They had him housed with crested geckos . Anyway, I took him to my local vet for care and I walked away with a $182 vet bill and advice to rinse him in 0.9% NSS and then rinse again with dechlor water daily. As I knew it wouldn't, it did not help. His skin started to wrinkle up and look worse. I figured she knew more than I knew, considering. I started boiling dechlor water and let it cool and wiped down his whole hospital tank every night, changed his paper towels every night, misted with the boiled/cooled dechlor water and applied neosporin thinly to his wounds every night. I didn't know what else to do since she is apparently the only vet who cares for herps in town. I was lucky. He toughened up and pulled through. It would have been nice to have more assistance. And that was a hefty bill to have made my frog worse.

    I brought home some ill, thin, dehydrated retf's in the past few months to hopefully recover them. This time I called Dr. Frye, spoke with him, sent email photos, and we spoke about symptoms, etc. I weighed them and he sent me the appropriate medications and dosings for them. They since then are eating on their own, rehydrated, and their skin lesions are healed. Since then I have opted to take in and recover the other 3, and they too have done well.

    So, I feel in some circumstances, this may be the best provision available to some.

    Sadly enough, the 3 I now have recovered with guidance and Rx's were taken to that same vet I saw for my first saved baby. She kept them for 2 days at the pet hospital there, did not even soak them when they were clearly dehydrated, did not even force feed them when their sides were so thin they were sunken in, and did not medicate their light green spots and patches nor the slimy brown patches. She returned them to the store and told them they were hard to feed so she couldn't and that she wasn't sure that the spots weren't their normal markings. I was shocked. When I spoke with the girls at the store they offered them to me as an adoption in attempts to save them. They are now completely fine . Pretty scary though, considering she is suppose to be the local zoo vet.

    Obviously, this is not the average case, but I do believe in some areas herp and reptile vets are scarce. This alternative may be their only option.

    I do sometimes wonder if it's easier for us to treat them as having medical background as nurses. Its hard to say. There are several very educated frog owners here on the forum, I feel. Proper dosing and understanding of the medications prescribed is very helpful. Knowing what flagyl was and what it was used for, SSD cream, and after looking up baytril, I had complete understanding of how we were treating what we were treating, and what likely organisms we were treating. It all made perfect sense. Not all of our members here have that background, and I think, to an extent, you should know what to expect with the medications, and when to call your vet.

    Of course, I am rambling as I do, but I can definitely see where a vet exam is important. Though sometimes availability of a good herp vet is scarce.

    I guess in this big long post I just wanted to say I agree with you both . Yet those who are less fortunate to have such a good vet as yourself are at a loss.

    Sorry I am always so long winded .
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  15. #12
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I have placed a re-order for emergency medications as recommended by Dr Frye:
    Unfortunately, medications expire.

    <Metronidizole $30 per 100 mLs.
    Silversulfadiazene/ topical antibiotic and antifungal $34 per ounce.
    Baytril / strong systemic antibiotic $24 per
    Panacur / powdered dewormer. $14 per spoonful.
    Shipping costs $11
    >
    total 113.00 including shipping

    When I receive them , I will post another reply here w/ photos and additional suggestions regarding supplies to be kept on hand
    in the frog medicine cabinet. With exception of the Baytril, I have used all of the above medications ( w/ Dr Frye's instruction) which saved the life of my frog.

    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  16. #13
    100+ Post Member kueluck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    How often should these be replaced?
    Rest in peace Rosie 5-31-12
    Rest in peace Rufus 2-7-14
    Rest in peace Morph 8-14-15


  17. #14
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by kueluck View Post
    How often should these be replaced?
    Hi Gail - my first delivery had various expiration dates. ( they all averaged about a year ..... some a little longer)
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  18. #15
    KimW
    Guest

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I have to say this: I have over 10 years exp as a vet tech. I agree it is MUCH better to have your animal seen by a vet if possible. I also realize with herp's it often isn't possible. I think overall the service Dr. Frye provides is often necessary, BUT, if you knew what these meds actually cost (especially in the dose needed for a frog), and what he charges for them, you would be outraged. I understand he needs to be compensated for someones time to package and ship these items. Even with this factored in, its still outrageous. When my frog was sick, I emailed him. I explained that I was a vet tech and had access to the meds and just wanted confirmation of the doses I was using. I got no reply. I know he is providing a valuable service, and it does save frogs, but he is also taking advantage of the fact that it is so hard to get care for herps and that kind of makes me mad.

  19. #16
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Hi friends,

    I just got home from work and decided to pop in. This was the first post I saw.

    As most of us here on this particular thread have some sort of educational and/or medical background it's will be easier to discuss... I think we are all at least somewhat analytical people. I can see where each avenue comes from. I don't think anyone is incorrect, it is just being seen through different angles. So, I feel kinda left out , and thought I'd join in .

    I, myself, am thankful to have access to a herp vet via this type of access. The 'apparent' herp vet here nearly killed and was negligent to the frogs that a local store send to her when they became ill. They were dehydrated, starving and had bacterial and fungal infections. The frogs were sent to her for 2 days for diagnosis and treatment. When I followed up to see how they were doing, my friend at the pet store said they still weren't eating and she wasn't sure which meds to treat with. She returned the frogs to the pet store untreated, not rehydrated with soaks, not manually fed...nothing. That is when I adopted them and called Dr. Frye. He helped me save them. I feel I payed for his services as well.

    We all know medication prices are inflated. When I had my daughter I paid $200+ for one time doses of Advil and a quick lido injection before a few stitches. We pay for the service delivery. I think his way of pricing is acceptable to the buyer if the buyer agrees on the price. It is our job to research and compare costs between providers.

    When I adopted Twiggy, my first retf rescue, he was full of infected scratches from being housed with lizards. I took him to a vet. It cost me $182 for her to to do skin cultures, and to provide me with a couple sterile saline syringes. Her answer to his treatment plan was to irrigate him daily with the NS syringe. That was it. I was not a happy camper. When I asked her if I should treat him with neosporin she said no. So, I ignored her instructions, went home and boiled dechlorinated water, sterilized a hospital tank, diluted the NS to 50% less with the boiled water, irrigated him with the cooled dilute NS mix, followed be a cooled boiled dechlorinated water irrigation, applied neosporin daily for 4 or 6 weeks I think it was, gently force fed him, cleansed the hosp tank with pre-prepared cooled boiled dechlorinated water daily, and also changed the water daily as such. He healed up. This was before the incident listed above. Money wasted.

    I guess what I'm wanting to say is we are paying for the education, time consumed and then shared in terms of teaching, and then delivery of the care items. Is his care overpriced? Isn't all health and vet care? I wish we did have cheaper access to the meds we need.

    Honestly, as a nurse, all I need is the infectious source and agent, the proper drug, and a proper dosing scale and I could do it myself. It's no different in terms of animals to humans except some of the drugs used and the Rx doses are tinier, so to speak. With culture results with sensitivities, we could all do it if we had a dosing guideline. Unfortunately most of don't, nor do we have direct access to the medications.

    I talk to our infectious disease physicians at work quite often about my frogs. They love to talk about them. We discuss things like human diseases caused by bacterial flora most found on amphibians and common protozoan infections. Interestingly enough, some of the most commonly prescribed antibiotics used to treat human bowel disorders and infections can be used or are derivatives of the antibiotics to treat common frog infections. I could write a whole book about it, but that's for another time. Now, if only they could prescribe the meds for me .

    But, too, we have to remember that most customers are frog owners without a medical background. They are paying for the education that goes along with the medications, ailment of the frog, etc. Healthcare is overpriced no matter which way we look at it.

    The best vet care would certainly be a well educated and experienced herp vet that is local so any sick frogs can have an actual exam. That I agree with for sure. I feel Dr. Frye provides us with a service for those that do not have that privilege. I may be partial because he has helped me save 6 frogs up to this point, but I am thankful.

    Sorry to blab on and on...I tend to enjoy writing. And, of course, I also know that this is only my opinion.

    Feel free to comment.
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  20. #17
    KimW
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Lots of opinions. Too much to really go into but just a few last words and I'll let it rest. As far as my inaccurate assuption of profit margin. I was speaking only of the internet aspect of his business when I said "essentially" no overhead. Yes, his regular practice has all those expenses, however, for the internet clients, most of those expenses would not apply. With the exception of the fecal aspect, (it did not seem like he performed a fecal for every client), and the person who actually ships out the meds, the bulk of the business would seem to be comprised of: reading the emails, looking at the pics, answering questions, perscribing meds. None of these things would incur the costs you listed. Look, I know most vets are not in it for the money, and most are not getting rich. As far as "winging" the dose of Baytril and "all my knowledge". I have worked primarily in small animal specialist referal and critical care. I have no herp exp nor do the vets I work with. I did look up the meds and dose. Which leads me to Lija.
    All of the things you said about profit in a regular practice are true, I just don't think they are as applicable in this particular circumstance of an practice that is conducted via internet. I am surprised that you are surprised that I didn't know the Baytril dose for a frog. None of the referal vets I work with knew it either. We don't see herps. We do hip replacements, cardiology, internal medicine, critical care...etc for small animals. When you say your husband "is testing every single sample" do you mean that he is reading every fecal, urinalysis, HW test, ....etc himself? Wow Thats awesome. I guess this is possible in a small 1 or 2 Dr. practice? I have never worked in one like that. I can tell you in large practices, that simply does not happen.
    So in the end Dr. Frye is providing a much needed service and I that is what matters most, I guess

  21. #18
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    It's a tough answer either way. Is there really even an answer?

    My conclusion is that all health care and medications is overpriced.

    Your best bet as a pet owner is to do your research, know who has experience with that particular species of pet, and know your options. Knowing who could treat your pet if an emergency were to arise also helps. It may also decrease costs, especially if your only option is an emergency vet hospital. There's nothing wrong with a little comparison shopping .
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  22. #19
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Hi Guys,
    I'm excited to see such great conversation. All members will benefit from this in the end.

    One thing that comes to mind this AM is: It's difficult enough to 'help' a member after the purchase of a frog .
    I am emphasizing after ! We can easily see all too often, the purchase comes 1st , then the learning as to how to take care of it comes 2nd. To compound the problem- they may leave a pet supplier - with the wrong information. So my point is , there is a tremendous need for the easy access to medical information/ and medication.

    I look a this from the educational point of view, as well . One may pay only 5.99 for a frog! Only 5.99 - cheap - right ! Having not even planned on the purchase which takes place impulsively. They like frogs ; all is not lost. Taking care of it when it's ill ( or going to the vet ) sadly, may never happen. In my post to members with a "sick" frog ( often as the result of poor care , wrong information etc. ) ; I quickly include a link to contact information for Dr Frye!

    The frog ( and hopefully the member ) CAN be saved.

    One day not too long ago - I was so exhausted after answering the same questions in the tree frog area --- like my good friend Heath ( love_heart) I blabbed too :
    http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...y-2-cents.html

    Talk to you soon
    Lynn
    Current Collection
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    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
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    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

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    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
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  23. #20
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Lynn, I love that link!!! Fantastic!!!!

    I think that is how this original post was intended. Prevention and having what you need available in a pinch.

    Of course, Dr.Frye is only one vet in a few hundred. He just happens to provide the service from the phone/Internet.

    I hope everyone will pass through the link in the upper post by Lynn here and read through. It goes beyond medications and teaches more about stress effects on amphibians, which therefore could lead to illness, then requiring the need for such medications.

    Thanks! Heather
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