Quote Originally Posted by flybyferns View Post
Hi Bruce,

It's not a soap-box! This is well worth a good discussion!

There are a few sides to all situations! Here's mine. Many of us would travel to the end of the earth to see a vet that could treat our frogs. However, qualified herp vets, ( specifically for frogs) are not so handy!

You sound like a caring and kind vet! I understand your point-of-view. I can only wish that your practice was near by.I am an RN, although very different; I understand how important 'clinical recommendations and standards of care are'. As well as,seeing and testing what you are treating.

I recently had a very sick tree frog. He did not eat for 7 weeks , he was so sick.
I took him to a local "herp vet". Forget about the cost, it did not matter to me!

I questioned the staff when making my appt and was told the vet that would be examining my frog , "was experienced w/ tree frogs".Well , I when got there it turned out the vet had very, very limited experience in treating my precious little 7gm creature. I left with a rx that would have been 3X the proper dose of Baytril ! It was prescribed even before waiting for a fecal result !!! This may be an unusual experience, but never-the-less, true. I had a bad feeling about the whole thing . I researched the dose of the drug. If it were not for my 'clinical' background and my doing so, my frog would have surly died .

If it were not for Dr Frye.......my frog would be DEAD !
His kind and considerate care was based on a tremendous amount of information via email including several photos and a detailed medical/daily care history.

More importantly, some people have no where to go, especially in rural areas of the US !!!! Then what does one do? Sometimes, they are really --in a pickle.

In defense of your point of view; if I would have found a vet first and then purchased the frog................... I would have been in deep dooo-daaa!

Hello Lynn,

Thanks very much for your reply. I do appreciate there are two sides to this, but that casual "oh, it's a pain to let the vet actually see the animal" (with the implication that the owner knows more than any vet) is what I dislike. I'm perfectly willing to admit that, particularly with some rare species, the owner may know more about the species as such, and as I said it is a joint effort to help the amphib. But I doubt many owners have the necessary detailed knowledge as mentioned (anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology) to provide a fully informed diagnostic and therapeutic plan.

Of course I don't condone what that vet did as described, and I do accept what you say about people without practical access to a suitable vet (although the impression I get, from several herp forums, is that quite a few people say this without trying to find, or at least making only fairly minimal effort to find, a vet). Under those circumstances, I don't doubt that veterinary advice can be invaluable, and of course doing it properly like Dr Frye does is the best option. But it is a very far from ideal option.

I've also seen too many places online recommending, say, panacur at a specific amount (not even dose), apparently ignorant of the fact that there are different preparations (or not allowing for the fact that the reader may be ignorant of it). 1 ml of 25% panacur suspension is (obviously as you know) NOT the same as 1 ml of 100% suspension, and that misunderstanding could kill a pet. Even different preparations of the same concentrations (say, oral baytril versus injectable) can have fatal consequences.

Of course, in a lot of cases, empirical treatment may be the only option (due either to practical considerations (I accept that blood sampling your 7 g frog is not a viable option!), or, more commonly in my experience, the owner is unwilling to pay for tests). But the owner should be aware of the options, and the potential risks of not testing. We're always taught to offer the best option for the animal - it is ultimately the owner's decision, but the vet's job is to do the best possible for the animal.

Best wishes,

Bruce.