Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

[Herpvet]

Yup, this is a plus

Already spoken to a few vets, they can't sell me anything without seeing what is wrong with the animal first - such a pain.

Sorry, I got a bit excited when I saw this, those prices are really good!

To give you an idea of my pain, I forked out £25 for seeing the vet then £95 for 60ml of Tamodine for my iguana - wish I lived in the states and not on a small rock in the middle of the Irish sea sometimes

Hello,

I should point out that there is a very good reason for seeing the animal - it is incredibly irresponsible, in my view, to dispense a medication (all medications being drugs, with potential side effects, interactions with other drugs, appropriate/inappropriate use issues) without being as reasonably sure as you can be that the correct drug, in the correct dosage, is being used for an appropriate condition. You can't really do that without seeing the animal, assessing its husbandry and examining it. Hence the legal requirement in the UK to see the animal. Obviously if the vet knows you and is happy that you know what you're doing, won't make a mistake with medication dosing etc he/she may be happy to dispense more freely. But with a complete stranger who just asserts "I know what I'm doing"? How responsible do you think it would be of the vet to give out medicines in that case? NO drugs lack side effects, although obviously their relative safety will vary.

As a vet, I am responsible for the effects of a drug I advise or dispense (unless administered contrary to my instructions/advice) - if I just said give your frog x mls of panacur, for example, and someone used a completely different preparation/concentration of panacur than the one I'm thinking of and kills the animal, then that's my fault. Or if I said, "oh, yes, that could be an abscess, here's some antibiotic" to someone just describing a lump on their frog, again that would be completely irresponsible if it died of a tumour (or indeed abscess) that could have been easily removed surgically.

In the example from another recent post, a white lump on the back of a frog, a bacterial abscess is the likeliest cause. But it could be a other things (fungal abscess, mycobacterial abscess, parasitic cyst, neoplasia, cyst, hernia or others), in which cases antibiotics are not beneficial (and could be harmful by disrupting the animal's natural skin, gut or other bacterial flora - natural skin bacteria are an important part of the animal's defences, including against chytrid). Similarly without testing you could miss the fact that the animal has mycobacteriosis (similar organisms to "fish tuberculosis") which can affect humans - again, something the vet has a responsibility to discuss with you.

It is worth noting that many of these could only be determined by further testing - which costs money I'm afraid. Professional services and advice costs money - if you can't or are unwilling to afford that, don't keep pets - if you do, that's irresponsible in my book. It is that simple.

Too many people moan over £25 vet consult, yet would (ok maybe not happily : ) pay far more for a plumber, builder etc. Obviously tests can be discussed as to their costs and benefits with the vet - but if you refuse the tests, you may prevent the vet getting the correct diagnosis and treatment (in the example, say fungal rather than bacterial abscess), which may kill your amphibian.

Sorry, but these people that think they 5 or 6 years in vet school is irrelevant and they can just throw drugs at an ill animal with no sort of diagnosis causes so much animal suffering. I'm certainly not discounting practical experience of keepers, and it is often a cooperative effort between keeper and vet to determine the best course of action (stress of medication issues may often make the medically ideal course of treatment inadvisable, for example). But selecting the appropriate medication in the appropriate preparation, dosing the appropriate amount and frequency, by an appropriate route of administration relies on a large body of background knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pharmacology and pathology as well as clinical examination, possible laboratory tests and other diagnostics. It's not just throw a drug at the animal. As a UK vet, I see the reasoning behind the requirement for seeing the animl, and it seems to make very good sense to me!

Not saying that all vets are wonderful, or that they will necessarily be able to help all animals. But they have the appropriate training (in general terms - obviously not all vets have further knowledge about amphibians by any means!). And I accept that some people do not have practical access to suitably trained/interested vets (although I don't accept it for most of the UK), in which case some compromise may be necessary. But are "I can't afford £10 consult fee", or "I can't be bothered to travel 10 minutes" (both of which I've heard, the second even with no consult fee for amphibians) acceptable excuses? If the alternative is no care for the animal, then the vet has to make an individual decision as to the animal's best interests - but owner unwillingness to spend a little money or put in a little effort should not be a factor in determining whether the animal is healthy and happy and gets appropriate care.

Of course I'm not saying all amphibians that stop eating for a day or go slightly off colour, such as many examples on this site, need to go to a vet. Discussion of and modifying the environment is often an entirely appropriate first step if there is a mild problem with the animal.

In terms of drugs, if you're in the UK, you should be aware that it is technically illegal to import prescription only veterinary drugs without a prescription, and illegal for a supplier to supply them to you without a prescription.

Sorry, off soapbox now. But please bear in mind that if a vet takes on treatment of an animal, he/she takes on responsibility for the health of that animal, and must act appropriately and responsibly. If you haven't assessed the husbandry of the animal, observed it and physically examined it, then I would suggest you are not really in a position to responsibly advise on its diagnosis and treatment.

Hope this helps,

Bruce.