WTF not adjusting...very worried

[mom2twinsplus2]

Hi Everyone-
I am so glad to have found this forum. I have tried posting on a couple of other forums over the last few weeks and I have taken many of the suggestions from the other forums already but so far, nothing has worked at all.
I have a White's Tree Frog that I purchased at PetSmart close to a month ago. It is not a full grown Whites Tree Frog...or at least if it is, it would be a small one..but it is not a tiny baby either. It is probably around 3 inches but I am trying not to mess with it too much to measure her since things are not going well.
I have it housed in a 12 X12 X18 inch exoterra cage which was recommended to me at the store but I understand now is a bit small. I don't want to change the cage at the moment though and I have heard from many people who have used this cage for a whites without an issue. I will look into upgrading her later once I get whatever is going on with her figured out first...it is bigger than her cage at the pet store was so I don't think the cage can be the primary issue anyhow.
She has fakes plants on two of the walls, a large corner water bowl, a bowl with her food in it on the other side and a flat piece of wood that she can climb on and hide under going across her cage. I started with reptile carpet in her cage, then had frog moss about a day and now have coconut bark (ecoearth) on the base of her cage. She has a lightbulb over her cage that is on during the day and off at night and a mini-zoo-med UTH on the side of her cage. Her cage is about 82 by day (hotter right opposite the UTH) and about 73 at night. Humidity is about 60%...I am misting a couple of time a day.
Since I got her, I don't think she has eaten at all...possibly one cricket but I think it got eaten by the other crickets. I have tried crickets, dubia roaches, superworms, meal worms, a night crawler (ewww...it was huge, died overnight and STUNK when it died), and now I have wax worms in there. I have been leaving food in there 24/7 in a deepish glass cereal bowl so the food can not get out and run around her cage.
At first, I figured it was relocation stress and no big deal....but it has been going on for weeks now and I was under the impression that getting White's to eat was not supposed to be hard at all.
It was suggested to me that I try soaking her in a pedialyte bath...10 parts water to 1 part unflavored pedialyte. I tried that tonight because I am getting desparate...she REALLY did not want to be in that water at all...climbed out and away as fast as she could...I put her in a few times to try to get some of the liquid on her but she seemed to hate it so and I really don't want to handle her or stress her anymore than I have to.
Oh, once I put in the ecoearth bedding...she buried herself for several days...I was told that was a sign of an unhappy frog...now she is up on the side of her cage all the time (not near the UTH though)...I hope that is a good sign of some sort but without eating, I am assuming she will die sooner or later and it is really awful to keep checking on her and wondering when.
Any ideas or advice about what I can do for her would be very much appreciated.
Thanks so much!
Alison

[John]

Hello Alison,

This frogs sounds like it reached you already severely stressed. Since you say it has never eaten I think it more than likely has a lingering septicaemic infection brought on by said stress and is just slowly working its way out of this world. I'm surprised it has lasted this long. Your only course of action at this point is to take it to an amphibian-savvy vet and see if he/she can do something for the frog - I really do believe it's beyond anything you personally could do.

Kurt will have an opinion too but I think he'll say take it to the vet right now.

[mom2twinsplus2]

Maybe so...but she did look alert and healthy when I got her...and she took a nice big dump the day after I got her so I am sure she was eating at PetSmart. I think she might have pooped one other time as well more recently but I am not 100% sure. She is still active and looking OK. I have been hesitant to take her to my vet for a couple of reasons but mostly because I didn't want to add to her stress. I will give him a call now and see what he has to say.

I am afraid that you are right cause I am thinking if it was just relocation stress, she would be over it by now.

Alison

[mom2twinsplus2]

Here are some pictures of my frog...I am afraid now that it is red leg...what do you all think. She feels a bit bony now to me on her back...sorry the pictures are horrible..I had a really hard time doing it by myself-lol.






Poor thing really doesn't like the flash....she is actually not quite as red or splotchy in real life as she looks in the pictures...but maybe the pictures are just highlighting the real issue?

Alison

[Kurt]

I would just get it to the vet as soon as possible, get it checked out. If you can get a fecal sample out of her, that will help the vet out a lot. It's a possibility that this could be "red-leg", but I am not going to say for sure. Listen to her breathing, as a respiratory infection can also stop them from eating. What you don't want to hear is crackling when she breathes.

[John]

Red-leg or whatever it is, it's still a septicaemia.

[Kurt]

True, wasn't stating that it wasn't

[mom2twinsplus2]

Her breathing sounds fine and she seems active enough....I don't see her climbing all over her tank trying to escape teh way she did when we first brought her home but she is often in a different spot than where I saw her last. She doesn't bury in the bedding anymore either. Since you both seem to think she might have a chance (I really was kind of thinking she didn't ), I will give the vet a call today and see if I can get in to see the exotic vet today. I live in Memphis and from all the places I have called, there seems to be one guy who does all the exotics in Memphis...he saw my Guinea Pig and my Bearded Dragon. I guess he isn't really an expert in any particular exotic but since he is the only one in Memphis, I guess he sees quite a bit of everything??? Who knows...I wish we had real experts here. I used to live in LA and you could find a expert in anything there-LOL. I dont know how the vet will be able to get a stool sample since she hasn't eaten in weeks but I will let the vet worry about that.

Poor frog.

I think I will take her in a cricket keeper with some paper towel in the bottom. Would it be best to cover the sides somehow so she can't see out or is it better to just leave it?

Alison

[Kurt]

This time of year, my animals travel in a styroform box or cooler. They are put in smaller containers and those in turn are place in the cooler. I also put a bottle of warm water in there to help maintain temperture.
Keep the paper towels moist.

[Crystal6]

Would it be possible to force feed it? (I heard you can very gently and carefully pry open a frogs mouth as a last ditch effort if it is not eating due to illness. Though, your frog looks fairly fat right now compared with mine. It is probably not starving yet.)

[Kurt]

I would not force feed unless instructed to by a vet.

[mom2twinsplus2]

I would not force feed unless instructed to by a vet.

Yeah, not unless instructed by a vet and definitely not for fun...ugh, it is not an easy thing to do!

Sorry for not updating over the weekend...it has been a bit busy around here.

We took Sticky to the vet on Friday and really he didn't do much but just looked at the frog. He really didn't think she looked too bad except for the slight redness on her leg. The big issue, of course, is that she just isn't eating. He said that he couldn't do a fecal because it had been close to a month since she ate so he decided to just treat her for parasites and hope that we hit the issue. She is on Panacur for 3 days, then once a week for 3 week and he gave me a silver sulfodiazine (or is it sulfer silverdiazine....ack..just looked but I am confused...too lazy to go back upstairs again) cream to put on anywhere that looks red to me. I am also syringe feeding her 2.0 ccs (it looks like a lot) of carnivore diet everyday...I have done it now for 3 days and she is seriously looking dumpy..she hasn't pooped yet though which was me worried. I turned down the 120.00 x-ray.

He told me to take out her bedding so I did that...she is just on plain glass now with her water dish, a log going diagonally across the cage and a couple of fake plants...it looks kind of sorriful but I am keeping it really simple for now.

So far, she is still moderately active and looking good but the worms and the roaches that I have put in her cage are just sitting there. As soon as she eats one, I can discontinue the force feeding which would be great cause she REALLY doesn't like me poking her in the mouth with the syringe. Yesterday, I did pretty well but Saturday she spit most of it out-LOL.

This really ranks up there high on the list of things I never expected to do in my life...but I am just ridiculously attached to this frog now...I hope she starts eating soon. She is so freakin cute!

Oh, I did see her soaking in her water on her own a couple of times so I think that is a good sign, right?

I'll let you know how it all goes....

Alison

[Kurt]

He said that he couldn't do a fecal because it had been close to a month since she ate so he decided to just treat her for parasites and hope that we hit the issue. She is on Panacur for 3 days, then once a week for 3 week

That is a lot different than what my vet prescribed. Sunday I took the rococo toad in to have his left arm checked out, as he has been holding it out at a weird angle. Anyway, he pooped the night before, so I took the fecal sample to be tested. Under the microscope we saw an entire microscopic zoo, worms and protozoa.
So, he treated the toad with metronidazole and instructed me to treat a week later with fenbendazole (panacure). Then the following week treat again with metronidazole and a week after that fenbendazole again.

Oh, my vet only charges about $35-40 per x-ray. My vet bill yesterday was only $12.

[mom2twinsplus2]

Ugh, really? That is so not what I want to hear. I actually didn't care for this vet at all...he was one of those out of the room the second he get go type of vets that really piss me off. I found out that there are actually 3 vets in the area who specialist in Reptiles and Amphibians (which is sooo weird cause I looked for a vet for my Beardie for a while and everyone I asked recommended this guy who I went to so I figure he was all there was)...turns out both Petco and Petsmart go to a different vet who they like way better so next time I am absolutely going to try him instead. I paid 100 and change for my whole visit...it was 45 for the vet visit (which was less by a bunch than when I took my beardie in...not sure why that is), about 20-ish each for the carnivore diet and the sulfer silverdioxide cream and 15 ish for the panacur. It would have been 120.00 for an x-ray...and honestly, after 3 days now of force feeding, my frog has not pooped so I wonder if I am going to need that x-ray eventually...if someone else might do it for a heck of a lot less than 120.00, I really need to call around.

Do you think I should not be doing this line of treatment? I am already 3 days in on the panacur and I have been doing the topical cream daily...ack.

I am really attached now to this particular frog after all the force feedings especially...she is such a sweetie <grin>...poor girl. I wish she would just take a big dump, eat a few roaches and we could just move on from here-LOL.

Alison

[Kurt]

Stick with what the vet prescribed. I am not a vet so I cannot over turn his decision.

Where are you located?

[Tom Highum]

http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...list-vets.html that might help you some they are specialist vet that are vouched for by hobbiests

[mom2twinsplus2]

Thanks for the link to the specialists in my area. They vet that I went to was actually listed there so I guess he was OK. I also saw a couple of others relatively nearby including one at the clinic that the people at PetSmart and Petco both recommend though I don't see the name of the specific vet they recommend.

I have been putting the cream on Sticky and feeding the carnivore diet now since Friday. She looks really good, I think...her legs really don't look red at all most of the time now and she looks a bit plumper. She is still not eating at all though and she still has not pooped at all. I don't really know what is going on at all....if she doesn't eat or poop she surely will die soon...I am not sure if I should keep feeding her or not. I think I will call back the vet I took her to already tomorrow and see what they have to say and I think I may start calling the other vets on the list to find out of any of them give more reasonably priced x-rays.

Another weird thing...when I got to force feed her...she really doesn't like it at all...but she has not once pee'd on me....I am thinking that is weird cause the day we got here she sure squirted us when she was freaked about getting moved to her new cage. I am wondering if the fact that she hasn't is a warning sign of something or anyother...

Anyhow...I think there are more phone calls to be made tomorrow for sure...

Thank you everyone for all the help!

eta....I am in Germantown, a suburb of Memphis

Alison

[Kurt]

You're welcome.