Dangers of UTH on SIDE WALL of tank?

[rosequoll]

I've been searching around online for a few hours and haven't been able to find exactly what I need to know, and while this isn't a DARTfrog tank, it is a frog tank so I'm sure you all can help. =)

I've created a planted tank using LECA, egg crate, flyscreen mesh and substrate. With plants (I'll attach a photo). When I first set up the tank it was simple LECA and spag moss with a UTH, which was keeping the tempteratures fine but 'burning off' the water in the LECA very quickly.

Since creating the egg crate bottom raised up, I'm now not getting very high temps in the tank. It's currently fine, but it's only heating about 1.5-2 degrees above ambient temperature and while it's 26`c/79f out that's fine, but once winter kicks in soon (already getting chillier at night, I'm in Australia so we're heading INTO winter now) I'm worried that I'll come out to 14`c/57f frogs. =(

I've added a bit of water into the LECA area hoping that it will heat up and help, but I think perhaps a heat mat on the SIDE of the tank may help the matter a bit more. I have a few worries here though:

1. I created the raised eggcrate bottom because I was, quite literally COOKING the plants, and the spagmoss bottom was easily reaching 32c/89f or more just below the surface. I don't want to create too much heat and fry the plants again.

2. I have tree frogs, and I'm quite worried about them burning their bellies on the glass if the heat mat is too warm. I can add little rubber feet/spacers but I don't want to even RISK this happening.

3. I'd go with a heat lamp instead, but this will burn off the humidity far too fast and bake the plants (and frogs).

Thanks for any help you can give!

[J Teezy]

If the heat mat area on the side of the tank is too hot i would imagine the frogs wouldn't chill there. here's something i've noticed with my Exo terra heat mat that i have on the side of my tank. I have the small rainforest version (8" x 8") just by moving my temp probe around i have found that you really only get heat right on the glass where the mat is. My tank is only a 10 gallon vertical and the temp difference from the side right where the heat mat vs the opposite where there is no heat mat is around 5 degrees or so

[GrifTheGreat]

Do you have a heat mat on the bottom? is there standing water in your drainage layer where the mat is placed? It is advised not to place a heat mat where standing water is. I believe it says so in their instructions. Most heat mats do not get too hot. Zoo Med heat mats which I use don't seem to make the glass hot enough to burn, but is farely warm. Exo-Terra heat mats are a little more powerful I believe, but I still do not think they get hot enough to burn.

[Treesniffer]

I wouldn't worry about the frogs burning their little tummies on the side glass. Please don't put the heat under the water. I didn't remove that film from the sticky underside of the heat mat until I was sure I wouldn't have to return it. During the day, additional heat with regular light bulb in reading lamp placed next to tank, and an additional low voltage sun lamp for plants, will add comfortable heat. Evening temperatures, which should be kept lower, can be kept at a healthy lower temperature with the Exo Terra Moonlight Glow light bulb; and there again, buy several, keep the boxes, return the ones that don't do what you want. It may be trial-and-error but if you monitor, read instructions carefully, you won't have any problems.

[rosequoll]

I'm curious about not heating the tank under the water? UTH's are commonly used to heat glass tanks with water in them here, it's regularly suggested and some are actually sold for that purpose (don't know if it's an Australian thing?). I checked the instructions thoroughly and there was no mention of not using it with standing water.

Not arguing, just curious!

I'd prefer not to go globes, but if I have to in the end, that's fine. I'm working on planning out an 'ultimate frog tank' and I'll likely be working some dichroic lights into the roof to create a high basking area (if wanted) and heat cord wired in behind the walls for ambient heating.

[J Teezy]

well if you heat under the water one its going to evaporate the water off faster and depending on how thick your substrate is also you may not get the heat you want. For instance the exo terra rainforest versions don't produce much heat. I have my probe right where the mat is on the side of my glass and it keeps that area over there around 78 degrees. What kind of temperature are you looking for? other things are going to affect temp as well, mainly your house temperature. My house thermostate is set at 71 degrees right now and thats about where my cool side of the tank sits at as well. My opinion on putting your heater underneath the substrate for ground dwelling frogs is that its going to keep the area where they are at that temp throughout depending on if you mat is as big as your floor space, which wouldnt give them much of an option to go to a cooler area if they want. by putting it on the side at ground level it gives them a warm side of the tank and cool side to choose from. remember frogs are not mammals and regulate their body temp by heating up. So if they need to heat up they can go over to the warm side, if they get too warm they have a cool side to go to and cool down some.

[rcollege]

I have a UTH on the side of my terrarium housing American Tree Frogs.
When it was cold in the house the would stay on the glass right where the UTH is. Never any burns.

I contacted ZooMed and was strongly advised not to use it under the tank if there was going to be water in the tank. They have had glass bottoms crack due to the heat and water. If the tank is to hold water, it is recommended to place this on the side of the tank.

I have success with using a ceramic heater or halogen heat bulb in one corner of the tank. The plants and critters do great this way. Spot lamps keep a tight beam allowing the focus area to get pretty hot, don't plant there, the heat will spread creating a nice gradient- while not frying the plants or critters. I use long fiber orchid moss or new zealand long fiber moss...and keep it moist to help with the humidity.

(I confess I have an anole and long tail lizard in with amphibians- hence the need for overhead heat- all have coexisted for months and closely are watched for feeding...you can flogg me later )

[viliqn97]

Not to make a new topic i will ask here. How many watts Exo Terra RainForest/Desert heat wave I need for 45x30x30 terrarium, stick on left glass ? I need 26C temperature, even if only one part of the cage.