Rainforest Paludarium

[velcroshaman]

Hey guys, new here and new to keeping frogs, and I have a few questions. I've been extremely interested in frogs for over a decade now, but have never been at a point where I felt I could provide them an environment that would keep them adequately happy. Now, my life is stable enough, and financially I can commit to caring for a few little buddies, so I'm designing a rain forest paludarium to keep mainly Red-Eyed Tree Frogs, although there will be other inhabitants, such as goldfish and snails. Anyway, on to my questions, and if you don't feel like reading them I've put a summary of the questions at the bottom of my post so you can skip all the other bits if you don't feel like reading.

I've settled on the dimensions of 16x36x24 as the final inside dimensions of my tank. Being that tree frogs are arboreal, I'd like to hear from people with a lot of experience dealing with them. Is a height of 24" adequate, given the bottom 4-5" of the tank will contain soil/water? I don't simply want to provide a habitat that my frogs can survive in, but I want to give them the 5-star accomodation. The tallest I've determined I can fit into my budget is 30", but tempered glass quickly escalates in price, and if 24" is enough to make them happy, I'd like to save a little bit of money if I can.

Second, given that this is a paludarium, there will be an ~10x12x4 area that is filled with water. Thus, I need a waterproof sealant that can bond to both glass and wood since the frame and base of the tank will be constructed of probably mahogany. After a few hours of research, I've settled on Whitworths Marine FixTech FixSeal MSP Clear as my best choice, although give that only part of the tank will be underwater, so is there another choice that's cheaper and still provides what I need, in addition to being completely non-toxic? I don't mind paying the expense if it comes down to making sure my little buddies aren't exposed to harmful chemicals on my account.

I don't want to ask too many questions right off the bat, so I'll only ask one more for now. Right now I'm trying to design a paludarium that's as close to a self-contained ecosystem as possible, so I want to limit the amount of electronic equipment to as little as possible. Right now I've accounted for having to have a submersible pump for an 8" high rock ledge waterfall to provide continuous water circulation and increase humidity, as well as a full-spectrum 6400°K CFL lighting for daylight for my plants, and a low-wattage red bulb for night-time viewing. From what I can tell in my research, the water circulation and addition of several small goldfish and snails to the water area should be sufficient to clean the water, so other than the pump, lighting, and a temp/humidity meter, are there any other considerations I need to keep in mind to create an environment that will sustain itself with a minimum of human interference?


Questions

• Is 24" tall enough to make Red-Eyed Tree Frogs happy? Not just livable, but happy?
• What's the best sealant I can use that is marine-grade and completely non-toxic to fish/plants/amphibians?
• Taking into consideration lighting requirements, water circulation & filtration, temperature & humidity monitoring, what else do I need to provide a safe, low-maintenance environment that amphibians and fish can live happy, care-free lives in?

Thanks to anyone that helps me out by giving me an opinion, and feel free to lay any wisdom on me that you've acquired from your own ventures into the proper care of tree frogs.

[velcroshaman]

Oh yeah, one more question. Is 1/4" thick enough of a glass?

[asid61]

Aquariums do not mix with terrariums. Small ponds are all right, but if the frog falls into the water, it will be dead and soil the water and kill what else is in there.
Don't know much about tree frogs, so I'm not going to comment on that.
As for the glass, just buy a standard aquarium and use that. It will be thick enough for most things.
Also, I have a 44 gallon pentagonal aquarium with stand if you are in the Cupertino/ San Jose area in CA.

[velcroshaman]

Sure they do! That's what a paludarium is, a combo fish tank and terrarium. I've seen dozens of them across several forums, and there will be a shallow end for the frogs to get fresh water.

The whole purpose of this is to make a custom-built tank, with the environmental monitoring, controls, and lighting all inset within the frame of the tank, which will be mahogany.

[asid61]

It might be slightly safer just to put a screen between the two sections. Better safe than sorry.

[Jess]

As far as I know that sounds all good Velcro. I'm not all that knowledgable on the building of these but I'm sure there will be some awesome people to help you on here soon .

[velcroshaman]

It might be slightly safer just to put a screen between the two sections. Better safe than sorry.

I'm thinking about it. Right now the plan calls for the waterfall to start at one end of the tank and flow through a wide, shallow stream into the pool, and about half the surface area of the pool will be taken up by driftwood and such, so I'm thinking this will be sufficient. The Red-Eyed Tree Frog display at the zoo here has a rather large body of water in it, so I'm trying to get in touch with the handler to see if he's ever had problems.

As for my first question, I've decided on the final dimensions of the tank as being 36x18x30 tall, which gives me an ~75 gal. tank to work with. Still not entirely sure this height is adequate since no one had any input, but I'm ordering the glass soon and need to make a decision.

[asid61]

Well, 30" is a little short, but just right for the frog.
Because, keep in mind that it will basically be a terrarium on top of an aquarium. A 12" tall aquarium, and a tree frog on top of that will be around 36" total.
But 30" is fine because you won't need to put the substrate above the aquarium.

[Nano]

Hey Velcro,

I love the idea of a Paludarium, I think the mix with water is just beautiful. I want to redesign it because I wanted to save some money and used a log I found on my backyard and it leeched the water with tannin.

I have 2 kinds of frogs, some tadpoles and some fishes as well:

- The first kind is a ground frog "Stripped Marsh frogs", so I have some of space in my tank for them to wander around and also lots of spaces for them to hide (in this photo below you don't see it well, but underneath all those plants there is an underground (shaded) area with gravel and access to the pond in the corner.

- Then I have some Litoria caerulea (Green Tree Frogs, or white's tree frogs).

For tree frogs, it is recommended to setup a tall tank. My tank is a "Reptile One" 60x60x90cm. It is great for what I could afford (would have loved to have maybe double the length in width so to have more room for ground decoration. The height is great for the Tree frogs as you can setup a nice waterfall and branches fror them to climb.

This was my first tank so I learned on the way. My next step is to build a proper waterfall.

Take a look at the tank and let me know what you think.



You can check more photos and how we build the tank here

https://picasaweb.google.com/110416584292969709788

We are thinking of building a better water area now, so we're planning on building a model like this one (Still very in the ideas world). Still haven't drawn the waterfall... but it will give you an idea on the basic setup for spaces... next step is planting and decorating

[velcroshaman]

Well, 30" is a little short, but just right for the frog.
Because, keep in mind that it will basically be a terrarium on top of an aquarium. A 12" tall aquarium, and a tree frog on top of that will be around 36" total.
But 30" is fine because you won't need to put the substrate above the aquarium.

Well, I did some calculating taking what you said into account, and I've changed my design slightly. I talked with the people at the place I'm ordering the glass from and worked out a deal, and I'm expanding the paludarium design to 36x18x36" for a 100gal. tank. The aquarium area will now consist of the leftmost part of the tank, a 12x18x10" area for approx. 10gal water area, which leaves me with 26" of vertical space. And then I'm looking at possibly making a slope down from the edge of the water to the other end of the tank, possibly modeling a volcano slope, so I might end up with 30-32" of vertical space at the far end. To cover up the 4-10" of soil at the front of the paludarium I'm going to install a glass barrier an inch or two behind the front glass and create an ant colony I believe. Still looking at what options I can manage within my budget. So I'm definitely going to manage this, just got to do some more planning.

[asid61]

Sounds good!
Plenty of space for frog(s), and enough space for a few fish.