New Member With A Question Or Two...

[UpxIsxDown]

Hi, y'all,

I'm new here and trying to research Pacmans so I can decide whether or not to get one. I'm a 21 yr old (22 next Tues.) experienced pet owner (cats, dogs, fish, horses) wanting to try something new. I've looked at a lot of different species of frogs and I've fallen for the Pacmans. I just can't get over how neat they are but while I've found a lot of information and caresheets on them, I'd like to hear from those who actually own these guys.

So here go my questions:

1. Are they good beginner frogs? I've read they are but any info about keeping them (like "things I wished they'd told me before I got one" sort of stuff, LOL :P) would be great.

2. What is the best way to keep their habitats humid and what is the best size tank/terrarium for them?

3. What is the best kind of substrate and where do you get it? I've read a few horror stories about parasites and I really want to avoid that sort of thing the best I can.

4. Where is the best place to get a Pacman? Are there any online breeders? I've googled them but didn't come up with anything.

Anyway, that's all the questions I've got for now but I'm sure I'll think of more! I want to learn and research all I can before I make the leap into frogs.

Thanks!

[Sue H]

Welcome! There are care sheets on this forum that should help you. Pac man frogs are easy keepers if you keep them warm and humid. You can either mist the tank a few times a day or buy a reptifogger for about 60 dollars (I did and it's worth the money).A ten gallon tank should be fine, they don't move around a lot. Eco-earth is the best substrate, it won't cause an impaction if he eats some. Reptile shows and online reptile breeders are a good place to get one. Petstores sometimes have them too, and most will order one for you if they don't have any in stock.

[GrifTheGreat]

Hi, y'all,

I'm new here and trying to research Pacmans so I can decide whether or not to get one. I'm a 21 yr old (22 next Tues.) experienced pet owner (cats, dogs, fish, horses) wanting to try something new. I've looked at a lot of different species of frogs and I've fallen for the Pacmans. I just can't get over how neat they are but while I've found a lot of information and caresheets on them, I'd like to hear from those who actually own these guys.

So here go my questions:

1. Are they good beginner frogs? I've read they are but any info about keeping them (like "things I wished they'd told me before I got one" sort of stuff, LOL :P) would be great.

2. What is the best way to keep their habitats humid and what is the best size tank/terrarium for them?

3. What is the best kind of substrate and where do you get it? I've read a few horror stories about parasites and I really want to avoid that sort of thing the best I can.

4. Where is the best place to get a Pacman? Are there any online breeders? I've googled them but didn't come up with anything.

Anyway, that's all the questions I've got for now but I'm sure I'll think of more! I want to learn and research all I can before I make the leap into frogs.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum! And thank you for doing your research Before getting a frog! You are on this forum; so you are on the right track! As Sue said, read the Pacman care sheet. it will give you a good idea of the overall care of a pacman. So now onto your other questions. I will give you the same advice I always give when people ask if a pacman is right for them (or any frog really). Frogs are amazing creatures. They are facinating and I love taking care of mine. But caring for amphibians is different from caring for other animals, particularly when their natural evironment is so different from their captive one. These are amazing creatures to have, but I will absolutely say that they are not for everyone. Here are the most common objections I hear from regretful owners:

1. They are not really beginner pets. Despite the fact that Petsmart labels them as "good beginner pets" they require specific conditions and a lot of monitoring. They are native to South America, so they need heat and humidity. Unfortunately, many people think they can just plunk the frogs in a container on their counter and throw a few bugs in once in a while and that's it: NOT TRUE!!! Because their temps and humidity levels are so vital to their health, they need consistent monitoring. All water MUST be dechlorinated or they WILL die. Babies and juvenilles must be fed daily. The water dish must be changed at least every other day. Feces should be removed immediately. Their substrate is changed at least once a month. Ideally they should have a 12/12 day/night cycle (12 hours daylight/ 12 hours darkness). All of this adds up to a lot of time spent on care and maintainance. Pacmans can also be very sensitive to changes in their environment and to outside stressors. Too much noise, light, other pets, people, drafts from air vents, etc can all cause the frog to get stressed. Unfortunately, when they get stressed they typically stop eating.

2. Money. A Cranwelli usually only costs about $15. Ornates usually cost aroudn $20. People often think that because the frog itself does not cost much that caring for it won't cost much either. In reality, by the time you by a terrarium, substrate, plants and hides, temperature and humidity gauges, background, heat mat, lights, light bulbs, water dish, spray bottle for misting, vitamin and calcium supplements, and food (and everything that goes along with having live food) you will EASILY spend $150-200. And that is for basic stuff, not for humidifiers or automated systems or anything like that. Also, please be aware that pacmans are exotic pets. Should they ever need vet treatment, they will need to go to a specilist which costs a lot of money. It breaks my heart how many times people have come to this forum seeking help and when they are told to take the frog to the vet they say won't spend that much money on a $15 frog. So the frog dies in severe pain. Exotic vets are also hard to find. I would recommend looking around now, to get an idea of pricing and how far you would have to drive if your frog ever needed treatment. I live in a big city and it still took me days to track down a vet that would even look at frogs.

3. Pacmans are not very active. They are ambush preditors. I find them fascinating, but for some people their lack of activity is boring. (Not my personal opinion obviously) If you want a frog that moves around a lot, then pacmans are not for you.

4. Pacmans cannot be held often. Over-handling stresses them out. It is bad for their skin. They should not be handled more than necessary. So if you are touchy-feely, get a hamster, not a frog.

5. They prefer live food. So it dealing with live crickets, worms, roaches, etc off-puts you, then frogs may not be for you.

6. Pacmans have long lifespans. If properly cared for, they can live 10-15 years. Some have even lived up to 30 years!! (check out Sumo at the Manchester zoo) Caring for a pacman is a serious time commitment. No one knows how your life will change in 10 years, but be aware that keeping a pacman is a LONG TERM commitment!

Now, all that being said, I am not necessary telling you no... or yes. I just want you to be aware and give you the info to make as informed a decision as possible. You should also know that frogs are addicting! You can never stop at just one! I hope this helps. Although it sounds as if you have already been stricken by the frog-bug!
(I'll answer your other questions. This is just getting long so I'm going to post it. More to follow.)

[GrifTheGreat]

Ok, now to answer you other questions!

Humidity is vital for their health. A lot of humidity will escape through the mesh top. This can be controlled by covering 3/4 of the top with glass, plexiglass, damp towels, or plastic wrap with air vent holes poked in it. If you use plastic wrap make sure the light is not directly over it.

A pacman can happily spend his/her entire life in a 10 gallon tank. They don't move around too much, so 10 gallons is plenty of space. You don't really want to go bigger than that, because they can get stressed out if they are in too big of a space. For this same reason, sometimes babies are kept in a large critter keeper for the first few weeks. It is a good idea to have a large critter keeper on hand anyway so that you can place the frog in it while you clean its encloser or for trips to the vet should that ever be necessary.

The most common substrate used is coco fiber. (NOT coco husk; that has bigger chunks) Pacmans often injest substrate when they lunge for their food, so it is critical that their substrate be something they can pass through their digestive tract easily. Some people use sphagnum moss because it helps maintain humidity, but the moss causes impaction (sever constipation) if injested. Take my word that it is no fun for the frog or you when you have to pull a long piece of moss out the frog's anus. If you use moss, you MUST feed the frog in a seperate container. This does mean handling your frog a lot more, because you have to move it to and from its enclosure everytime you feed it. Some frogs don't have a problem with this, but others get stressed and won't eat outside of their enclosure. Pacmans like their comfort zones. Coco fiber is available at most pet stores with an amphibian section. You can also order it online from vendors such as Josh's Frogs. Parasites are more commonly spread through food sources or lack of cleanliness. If you maintain cleanliness and get food from a good source, then parasites are unlikely (although they can still get them).

Cranwellis are the most commonly available in the pet trade. (And thus the least expensive) Chains such as petsmart carry them, although they are often not kept in good conditions. It is best to buy from a breeder if you can. You can buy from them directly or at an expo. I'm not sure what expos are in your area. Most breeders will ship, but it's pricey to ship a live animal, obvisouly. There are several breeders on this forum.

I hope this has helped. If you have any other questions, just ask. We are happy to help! I recommend browsing through old threads in the pacman section. There is a lot of good info there.

[motiszm]

Lots of good info here! I like to use moss because of its absorptive qualities and because it also functions as a hide. The risk of impaction is eliminated if you feed with forceps. My first horned frog I had when I was a kid would spaz out if I stuck my hand in the tank, but I think if you start them out early, like I did with my samurai, you can acclimate them to it. It might just depend on the frog though, my samurai really doesn't mind, in fact he wants to eat my fingers .

Also, if you don't want to spend a lot of money there are ways to do it if you don't mind sacrificing aesthetics. Horned frogs aren't the best display animals anyway since they spend most of their time burrowed in the substrate. I keep my amphibians/reptiles in plastic tubs from wal-mart. For $4 you can get a great container that will retain humidity better than an aquarium.You just need to drill a few holes in the sides and there you go. To get around the heating problem I just keep them in a decent sized storage closet and heat the whole room, dropping the temps a bit at night. No drying from overhead heat, and no heating pad issues. You just have to make sure you have the right heater and that it's positioned correctly or you could burn your house down... :P For the water dish you can use almost anything provided it is shallow enough for them to crawl in and out of.

Not the prettiest setup in the world, but it's great if you have limited space and want multiple frogs: