My frog keeps going into aestivation, help please

[Ribbits]

For the last month or two my adult pacman (4 inches across) keeps going into aestivation. I will get concerned after 5 days or so and dig him up and give him a soak. He then usually sheds his exterior and then goes right back into aestivation again. The temps is around 82-84 in the day and 78-80 at night. Humidity around 70%, although i think my guage is pretty cheap and not sure if it is accurate. I keep the soil moist by spraying once a day and pouring about a pint of water over the soil once a week or so. Also after his soak he will usually eat 1 to three nightcrawlers, but he usually eats 3 nightcrawlers every other day when he is ot in Aestivation. He used to be on a very regular cycle of buried during the day and coming up at night like clockwork. I have not changed anything since then. Is this perhaps an internal seasonal clock thing. Should i not bring him out of his Aestivation. How long should i leave him in Aestivation before I need to be concerned.

[GrifTheGreat]

For the last month or two my adult pacman (4 inches across) keeps going into aestivation. I will get concerned after 5 days or so and dig him up and give him a soak. He then usually sheds his exterior and then goes right back into aestivation again. The temps is around 82-84 in the day and 78-80 at night. Humidity around 70%, although i think my guage is pretty cheap and not sure if it is accurate. I keep the soil moist by spraying once a day and pouring about a pint of water over the soil once a week or so. Also after his soak he will usually eat 1 to three nightcrawlers, but he usually eats 3 nightcrawlers every other day when he is ot in Aestivation. He used to be on a very regular cycle of buried during the day and coming up at night like clockwork. I have not changed anything since then. Is this perhaps an internal seasonal clock thing. Should i not bring him out of his Aestivation. How long should i leave him in Aestivation before I need to be concerned.

I'm assuming that your frog is over a year old due to its size. If you don't want him/her to go into aestivation you must maintain a constant 80% humidity and day time temps of 82 to 85. Night temp should be around 78 or 79. When he/she goes under. You can dig him/her up and place the frog in a warm de-chlorinated soak. Some frogs will go under anyway, but at this time of year he/she should not be trying to hibernate. I would buy a nes Hygrometer and invest in a Zoo Med Hygrotherm and hook a Zoo Med Reptifogger up to it to maintain your frogs climate consistantly. This is an option not something you have to buy. It does do wonders for your frog though.

Keep me posted.

[Ribbits]

so I am now monitoring his temp in two places in the tank, bought a new giant mister, and making sure his tank humidity and temp are exactly where they should be. Tonight I gave him a soak and changed his substrate. He does not seem to be going into aestivation any more, but he has not regained his appetite. He is still pretty fat but he has only eaten one nightcrawler in the past week and a half. He has not pooped in three weeks or so, but has not been eating much in the time. No lumps in his belly. He was chirping yesterday which I think is generally a good sign. Should I go to the vet? I get crazy ideas in my head like his substrate might have been contaminated, which is why i changed it even though I changed it less than a month ago.

[Ribbits]

I think he is two or three although I have only had him for a year. Here is a pic from tonight after I changed the substrate.

[GrifTheGreat]

Monitor him closely. If needs be you can soak him in either a. Honey bath which is a warm soak with 3 to 4 drops of honey disolved in the water or a Pedialyte bath of a 10 to 1 ratio. 1oz of Pedialyte to every 10oz of water. It MUST be UNFLAVORED Pedialyte.

A vet may give him a Baytril injection which is an antibiotic that can spark their appetite, sometimes doesn't work. You could try keeping him at 85 degrees for a couple days to help boost his appetite. Heat is how they digest and metabolize their food so higher temps can spark their appetite.

Try the higher temps first before using the soaks. I wouldn't take him to the vet unless something is actually wrong. It could only provide an unecessary bill for you.

Keep me posted.

[pac]

i would just let him astivate my big frogs just woke last nite

[GrifTheGreat]

i would just let him astivate my big frogs just woke last nite

That is an option, but they aren't supposed to aestivate in Spring. His internal clock should be set to the seasons where he lives right? I wouldn't let him since this is a first time experiance for this member. Since he is worried to death about him going into aestivation I'm pretty sure that he will also worry himself to death while his frog slumbers. Do not want an accidental death due to a first time aestivation. That is my concern.

[Ra]

The rainfalls begin to wane in March, and the Gran Chaco begins to dry up at this time, with July and August being the driest. Horned Frogs sometimes enter partial estivation and we for reasons we may not know about. Generally it happens when it gets too hot or too cold.
You shouldnt disturb the animal when it does this, just let it rest beneath the plant material/coco fiber/moss substrate, keep fresh water in the bowl and wait it out. When its ready it will emerge, shed and be hungry.
Fighting the process could be detrimental to your frogs health.
Any updates on this?

[GrifTheGreat]

The rainfalls begin to wane in March, and the Gran Chaco begins to dry up at this time, with July and August being the driest. Horned Frogs sometimes enter partial estivation and we for reasons we may not know about. Generally it happens when it gets too hot or too cold.
You shouldnt disturb the animal when it does this, just let it rest beneath the plant material/coco fiber/moss substrate, keep fresh water in the bowl and wait it out. When its ready it will emerge, shed and be hungry.
Fighting the process could be detrimental to your frogs health.
Any updates on this?

No ill affect come from keeping the frog from aestivating when the conditions are not right for it. Several premature deaths have occurred from inexperienced people allowing their frog go aestivate and not keeping up with humidity and slightly lower temps. Many never wake up. You're right about the seasonal change, but that doesn't happen here and usually aestivation if performed during the wonder months so that when spring arrives breeders can begin to fatten up their Pacs and begin preparing their rainchambers. It is highly recommended that no frog under a year of age be allowed to aestivate due to a lot of young frogs just never wake up.

[Ra]

No ill affect come from keeping the frog from aestivating when the conditions are not right for it. Several premature deaths have occurred from inexperienced people allowing their frog go aestivate and not keeping up with humidity and slightly lower temps. Many never wake up. You're right about the seasonal change, but that doesn't happen here and usually aestivation if performed during the wonder months so that when spring arrives breeders can begin to fatten up their Pacs and begin preparing their rainchambers. It is highly recommended that no frog under a year of age be allowed to aestivate due to a lot of young frogs just never wake up.

Breeders generally PUT frogs into a period of dormancy during the winter months because of the reduced photoperiod and is generally a period of brumation. This is done intentionally by the breeders. This is generally considered brumation.

I had a lot of trouble with a pacman frog I purchased from a petco as a baby several years ago. He attempted to go into a state of dormancy and I did everything I could, from electrolyte soaks to force feeding to adjustments in temperature and humidity. The result was that he never started eating on his own, remained inactive and eventually his health began to deteriorate. Once he had lost quite a bit of body mass it was too late to allow him to aestivate and in retrospect I regret not allowing this natural dormancy to take place.

I think there is some confusion going on here between brumation and aestivation.

[GrifTheGreat]

Breeders generally PUT frogs into a period of dormancy during the winter months because of the reduced photoperiod and is generally a period of brumation. This is done intentionally by the breeders. This is generally considered brumation.

I had a lot of trouble with a pacman frog I purchased from a petco as a baby several years ago. He attempted to go into a state of dormancy and I did everything I could, from electrolyte soaks to force feeding to adjustments in temperature and humidity. The result was that he never started eating on his own, remained inactive and eventually his health began to deteriorate. Once he had lost quite a bit of body mass it was too late to allow him to aestivate and in retrospect I regret not allowing this natural dormancy to take place.

I think there is some confusion going on here between brumation and aestivation.

I see what you're saying, but the problem is inconsistent climate. The frog never feels the need go aestivate or Brumate IF the climate remains consistant. That mean soil must maintain moisture levels. Humidity must be kept in optimum levels as well as temps. Perhaps you had a WC frog because unless their climate is lowered to the point that they place their body into this natural state of dormancy it doesn't take place. In order for aestivation or brumation to be successful they must be fattened up in order to survive the dormancy period. I have had my adult female attempt a dormancy period and warm baths almost always bring them out of it as long as the enclosure is kept consistantly warm with even night temps staying at 80°

That being said not all individual Pacman Frogs are alike and therefore all react slightly different when it comes to climate changes, but most recover and a lot live very long lives of up to 16 years without ever having a dormancy period at all.

[Ra]

I see what you're saying, but the problem is inconsistent climate. The frog never feels the need go aestivate or Brumate IF the climate remains consistant. That mean soil must maintain moisture levels. Humidity must be kept in optimum levels as well as temps. Perhaps you had a WC frog because unless their climate is lowered to the point that they place their body into this natural state of dormancy it doesn't take place. In order for aestivation or brumation to be successful they must be fattened up in order to survive the dormancy period. I have had my adult female attempt a dormancy period and warm baths almost always bring them out of it as long as the enclosure is kept consistantly warm with even night temps staying at 80°

That being said not all individual Pacman Frogs are alike and therefore all react slightly different when it comes to climate changes, but most recover and a lot live very long lives of up to 16 years without ever having a dormancy period at all.

Looking back, the house I lived in at the time made both temperature and humidity challenging to keep consistent in any way, and this more than likely triggered this behavior in the frog. Again, in retrospect, I wish I had simply let the frog go into dormancy. His weight was good at the time and prior to that he was exhibiting normal behaviors despite being a fincky eater. Though I doubt any C. Cranwelli are being imported and sold at Petco, the little guy was about as difficult to feed as a WC Cornuta from the time that I purchased him. But once he started spitting force fed foods out and constantly laying low and shedding, I couldnt fight the weight and health deterioration. Had I known some of the things I knew now, there were probably lots of things I should have done, but I think letting him go dormant while he still had good weight would have been the easiest and the most natural solution to the whole problem.

[GrifTheGreat]

Looking back, the house I lived in at the time made both temperature and humidity challenging to keep consistent in any way, and this more than likely triggered this behavior in the frog. Again, in retrospect, I wish I had simply let the frog go into dormancy. His weight was good at the time and prior to that he was exhibiting normal behaviors despite being a fincky eater. Though I doubt any C. Cranwelli are being imported and sold at Petco, the little guy was about as difficult to feed as a WC Cornuta from the time that I purchased him. But once he started spitting force fed foods out and constantly laying low and shedding, I couldnt fight the weight and health deterioration. Had I known some of the things I knew now, there were probably lots of things I should have done, but I think letting him go dormant while he still had good weight would have been the easiest and the most natural solution to the whole problem.

It is very possible, but we all make mistakes and the only thing we can do now is learn from those mistakes. I know I have.