Final Words

[Pippin]

Hi, I have not posted in this section before, because I have had no problems previously. Sadly I will have no more reason to post in this section because I no longer have a true frog. I had a juvenile male American bullfrog for just a little under a year, today he died; and I have no idea why. He was about 3 inches long when his legs were stretched out. He has always been plump and healthy with a voracious appetite. I've always fed him gut loaded crickets and had him since he was a froglet. He was housed in a 10 gallon vivarium (half water half coco fiber) (I also realize this would be too small for an adult bullfrog but he was small as stated and as he grew I was going to provide more space) He was eating fine not 3 days ago when I fed him his crickets. He showed no signs of weakness, no behavioral abnormalities, no discolorations, nothing that would signal me of illness. He died within minutes too. Simply flipped over on his back, legs out stretched twitching, then death. (if I didn't know better I would think it was a seizure) No time to even treat, when I picked him up he was deceased. He had no flushed red color in his underside or legs either. I have never experienced anything like this from an amphibian and I am fairly well experienced with pet care. I know a necropsy would reveal his cause of death, but it is a short month and Valentines day ate a lot of my money and I still have bills at the end so I don't have the extra money, but it is my responsibility as a pet owner to understand what has happened here. So please does anybody have any experiences with this, I would greatly appreciate the closure. Thank you in advance as always

[Heatheranne]

I do not have any experience with that, but I am very sorry for your loss .

[Reggie]

Did you have plants in enclosure ? About twenty years ago , I found out the hard way that Crotons are poisonous. The crickets in my Uroplatus enclosure ate some of the leaves and within three days , all ten Uroplatus individuals died off. So far , pothos and ficus benjamina are safe with my herps.

[Pippin]

I only had silk plants, I always fear using live plants with the aquatic or semi aquatic species cause I don't know how (or don't feel confident) sterilizing them of their fertilizers and contaminates that could seep into the water table. But that is a good thought I'll always keep that in mind for future enclosures

[Pippin]

and I am sorry about your uroplati, that was an extremely unfortunate loss

[KingCam]

I think Reggie may be onto something. It sounds like your frog was poisoned. In fact, what you just described, is exactly what happens to an animal after it's been bitten by a pit viper & exposed to neurotoxins.

Has your house been treated recently for pests? Were you using any kind of spray, like for mites?

[KingCam]

I'd also like to add that I know an experience like that can be a strong deterrence, but you shouldn't give up on the hobby! Frogs can be a real joy to keep. Get a grey tree frog, they're almost indestructible! They can handle a WIDE range of humidity and temperature.

[toxxxickitten]

I can't help you with your situation, as I have no experience, but I am sorry for your loss! It's always hard losing a beloved pet. I want to also say that I agree with Cam. Don't give up keeping frogs because of one bad experience! They ARE a joy to have. I would also recommend a Grey Tree Frog. I have two and they have two extremely different personalities. I caught them in my own backyard last spring/summer and they have been a joy to have. I love listening to them croak.

[GrifTheGreat]

I am terribley sorry for your loss. That is a horrible way for you to experiance the loss of your pet, but as Cam said don't let that stop you from continuing this hobby. They are always a joy to keep.

To be honest like Cam said it sound like the death was caused by a neurotoxin or just a neurolgical problem. Seiszures can cause death if they are severe and that definetly sounded like a severe one. Only a Vet performing an autopsy would accurately determine the cause of death.

Again I'm sorry for your loss.

[BlueisallIneed]

I do not have any experience with that either but I am very sorry for your loss If anything don't give up on your love of frogs! You sound like a very loving "parent" and many out there can use a good home!

[Pippin]

Thank you all for your condolences. I am very particular about what household cleaners I have because I have other animals, and I still have frogs, my Whites tree frogs, and my eyeless African clawed frog. Though I will never count out for the unaccountable though I was always careful not to use any toxins around him (or any of the other animals for that matter, I also breed Chinese painted quails and their chicks are very chemical sensitive so my disinfectants are effective yet very mild) But as for a new frog it will probably be a while before I get another, but I am considering an African bullfrog

[frogluver]

My heart goes out to you and your loss! I'm so sorry to hear this !

Was your bullfrog wild caught? When I first started keeping Wood frogs, which I caught from pond area near my house, I had a juvenile who was really healthy. He ate consistently, his bone and muscle strength were excellent, and he was always very active. But one evening—about a year after I had him in captivity— when I went to feed him, he just flipped over onto his back, stretched out his legs, and started to have seizure/spasm like attacks. He also had temporary paralysis. Fortunately, he didn't die. After the attacks, he appeared very ill and had a few more attacks after that.

Now during that time, we didn't have any vets that specialized in amphibians, in the state of Alaska. So the only thing I could do was research (and pray). But after an hour of research, I found something that resembled what my baby was going through......Heat related muscle spasm syndrome (HRMSS). HRMSS only happens if the temperature continues to be too high for the frog to handle for extended periods of time. The frogs will seize and the hind limbs will stretch out. They will also gape (frogs way of panting) in attempt to cool off. If temperatures persist for 3 or more days the frog will become paralyzed or limp and die. The only way it can be treated if caught early enough is by cooling off the frog.

Wild amphibians found in cooler environments, can easily escape the heat waves in their natural habitats. But when brought into captivity, and if temperatures are too high and not enough ventilation is provided, it can be harder for the frog to escape the heat in its enclosure. I didn’t have the prober lighting for a Wood frog….I had an office lamp and it could get rather hot after several hours of usage. When I realized this and after what had happened, I corrected my husbandry and gave him the proper environmental temperatures/lighting he needed and he recovered.

Is it possible that maybe he had several seizures before and you didn’t notice it? I don’t think you did a bad job in caring for your bullfrog….you did great. Again I’m so sorry for your loss

[Pippin]

That sounds very much like what happened to him, but his tank wasn't even heated, it was probably just a few degrees above room temperature due to the glass, so probably about 76 or 77 degrees, and he passed in the evening when the temperature would have dropped anyways (i turn the air cooler at night) but he did just flip on his back and seize like that. And I am assuming he was wild caught (just a little frog some of my friends had brought to me) so perhaps he had an underlying condition