Transferring tanks, cycling time, frog tolerance, water testing, etc

[0h hey]

Ok, so hi everyone I just joined the forum today
I have had two african clawed frogs for a couple of years now. One is named Astro, a male, and the other is Olive, a female. They breed about once a month but I don't want any more frogs so I just leave their eggs to be eaten. The male sings a lot and they always look pretty content- just hanging out in their little flower pot homes.
I don't actively monitor water conditions in their current aquarium, an 8 gallon bioOrb. When I set it up I had no idea about cycling a tank or anything and killed many fish, I did not have the frogs yet at that time. After the fish died I just gave up and let the tank sit fish free because it's pretty and I guess that's how my tank got cycled without me knowing it. One day I bought the frogs and dropped them in and here we are today.

My frogs are all grown up now and I'm moving them to a 20 gallon. The 20 gallon is currently set up and I am kind of learning this cycling thing as I go along. It has sand substrate, one anubias plant, a piece of driftwood and a little cave. It has been sitting for about 4 days. Wednesday is when I planted the anubias and I also added some stress zyme. Last night I added a block of brine shrimp to seed the tank. Today I added some of the filter media from their bioOrb (ceramic rocks that doubled as the substrate in the old tank) to help boost the process even more. Astro and Olive are still in their bioOrb waiting patiently (more patient than me) for their new home to be ready.

Of course this is the longest I have ever kept anything alive in an aquarium and I have gotten quite attached to my hardy little warriors. I want to do everything right this time!

My actual questions are-
Do I even need to do fishless/frogless cycling for this new tank? I have done full water changes, with untreated well water, and they've made it through that.
Their bioOrb usually has visible bacterial blooms and they seem getting along fine- am I a terrible person for not doing anything about this?
Should I invest in a water testing kit to track the cycle and monitor ammonia and nitrite/nitrate levels?

I have allowed myself to be comfortably ignorant in the past but I dropped a good amount of money on their new tank and I want to make it perfect for them.
Any advice is appreciated!

[Jenste]

I would move them immediately into the 20 gallon and keep up with water changes - the 8 gallon tank they are living, especially orb shaped, is just not big enough for 2 adult frogs.

I would invest in a kit, API has a really decent one. Don't use the paper test strips as they are very inaccurate and can make you feel as if all is well when in fact things are going to hell in a handbasket

So move your frogs to the new tank and just keep doing water changes - - even 1/4 a tank daily will be fine as long as you are consistent.

[rodsboys]

I agree with Jenna, transfer them now. Bag up the rest of the old media and shove it into the new filter too.

[Collegekid]

Mine handle cycling fine, just keep up with the partial water changes! A testing kit is a good idea, I like the API one.

[0h hey]

Thanks for the replies!
I moved them into their new tank today. I tested the water and the ammonia is still up there around 1 ppm (according to a liquid test). The PH is beyond crummy too (according to test strip) but they are doing ok. I have at least been showing some nitrates (test strip again).
They were more spooked by the new lighting it seems. They calmed down once we turned off their tank light and some surrounding lights in our apt. Hopefully after a night of getting used to the tank they will be less alarmed when I turn it back on in the morning. I have some live plants I want them to get some light.
They haven't been in a tank with corners since they were froglets. They are so used to swimming around in circles. That sounds kinda sad but at least they never bumped their noses!

I have one more question- the water I'm using is city water so I usually give it two days for the chlorine to dissipate. I let it sit in 1 gallon containers. I only have five of them though. If needed I can buy a couple more jugs of spring water. I have read in other places that the water may be dechlorinated after less than 24 hours of sitting out- is this true? If so I can go ahead with another water change tomorrow instead of waiting till Wednesday.

Thanks for the advice- it is great having so many experienced ACF owners in one place to learn from.

[Kristen87]

Thanks for the replies!
I moved them into their new tank today. I tested the water and the ammonia is still up there around 1 ppm (according to a liquid test). The PH is beyond crummy too (according to test strip) but they are doing ok. I have at least been showing some nitrates (test strip again).
They were more spooked by the new lighting it seems. They calmed down once we turned off their tank light and some surrounding lights in our apt. Hopefully after a night of getting used to the tank they will be less alarmed when I turn it back on in the morning. I have some live plants I want them to get some light.
They haven't been in a tank with corners since they were froglets. They are so used to swimming around in circles. That sounds kinda sad but at least they never bumped their noses!

I have one more question- the water I'm using is city water so I usually give it two days for the chlorine to dissipate. I let it sit in 1 gallon containers. I only have five of them though. If needed I can buy a couple more jugs of spring water. I have read in other places that the water may be dechlorinated after less than 24 hours of sitting out- is this true? If so I can go ahead with another water change tomorrow instead of waiting till Wednesday.

Thanks for the advice- it is great having so many experienced ACF owners in one place to learn from.

Personally I've found the best way to cycle a tank is to limit water changes unless the readings are on the very highest end of the scale, while using a product like stress zyme or Prime which detoxifies the ammonia/nitrites so that they are not harmful to the inhabitants. If you continually do water changes then the bacteria that you are trying to grow in the filter to naturally rid the tank of ammonia/nitrite will not grow as quickly because it will have no ammonia/nitrite to feed off so the whole cycle process will be extended. For me this makes it easier to monitor when your water has completed its nitrogen cycle too, as you will see a major spike in ammonia and this will then drop down and you will have a major spike in nitrites which will then also drop and then depending on the amount of live plants in your tank you will have some nitrates which will hopefully drop (plants will absorb the nitrates from the water). I know other people prefer to do daily water changes to make sure the chemistry is at a safe level but I find this isn't necessary if you are using a product to detoxify ammonia/nitrites while leaving them present in the water to assist in the growth of good bacteria in the filter media. This is just my personal opinion and what has worked for me though.

I'm not overly experienced with stress zyme but I know the product I use - Prime - removes chorine and chloramine so I just add that to my tap water so that I don't need to leave it sitting for any time and can pour it in straight away. You might want to read the bottle of yours and see if it does the same thing

[Jenste]

Personally I've found the best way to cycle a tank is to limit water changes unless the readings are on the very highest end of the scale, while using a product like stress zyme or Prime which detoxifies the ammonia/nitrites so that they are not harmful to the inhabitants. If you continually do water changes then the bacteria that you are trying to grow in the filter to naturally rid the tank of ammonia/nitrite will not grow as quickly because it will have no ammonia/nitrite to feed off so the whole cycle process will be extended. For me this makes it easier to monitor when your water has completed its nitrogen cycle too, as you will see a major spike in ammonia and this will then drop down and you will have a major spike in nitrites which will then also drop and then depending on the amount of live plants in your tank you will have some nitrates which will hopefully drop (plants will absorb the nitrates from the water). I know other people prefer to do daily water changes to make sure the chemistry is at a safe level but I find this isn't necessary if you are using a product to detoxify ammonia/nitrites while leaving them present in the water to assist in the growth of good bacteria in the filter media. This is just my personal opinion and what has worked for me though.

I'm not overly experienced with stress zyme but I know the product I use - Prime - removes chorine and chloramine so I just add that to my tap water so that I don't need to leave it sitting for any time and can pour it in straight away. You might want to read the bottle of yours and see if it does the same thing

AmmoLock etc are not ways to remove ammonia from toxic levels. You limit water changes when you are doing what is called a "fish-less" (or in this case "frog-less" cycle). When you have living creatures in the tank, it is cruel to subject them to toxic levels of ammonia which burns their skin in order to make the cycle happen faster for the tank owner.

The frog's well being is the main concern here, so clean water is of the highest level of importance. I am sure the tank owner does not mind doing more frequent small water changes in order to give the frogs healthy water.


And to the thread owner - - Do you treat your water? You can buy water dechlorinator that removes the chlorine with in a few minutes, rather than having to let the water sit out for long periods of time. It is fairly cheap (less than $10) and one bottle lasts me with 6 tanks MONTHS.

The frogs will get use to their light - they have no eyelids so when you first turn it on it will startle them, but they will settle in quickly. Can't wait for pictures of their new home!

[0h hey]

This morning I found eggs in my tank so they can't be all that stressed. I do worry about them breeding so much but I'll save that for another thread so other members can reference it.
I'll post pictures once I have their new tank all set up to my liking. Thanks again everyone!

[rodsboys]

The biggest thing to keep in mind with water conditioners is if it treats just chlorine or if it is for chlorimine and chlorine. If your local water supply contains chlorimine just letting the containers of water sit for a day or two will not remove it. That only works for chlorine. The chemical bond has to be broken. Make sure you know what is being used by your water supplier.

[Kristen87]

AmmoLock etc are not ways to remove ammonia from toxic levels. You limit water changes when you are doing what is called a "fish-less" (or in this case "frog-less" cycle). When you have living creatures in the tank, it is cruel to subject them to toxic levels of ammonia which burns their skin in order to make the cycle happen faster for the tank owner.

The frog's well being is the main concern here, so clean water is of the highest level of importance. I am sure the tank owner does not mind doing more frequent small water changes in order to give the frogs healthy water.


And to the thread owner - - Do you treat your water? You can buy water dechlorinator that removes the chlorine with in a few minutes, rather than having to let the water sit out for long periods of time. It is fairly cheap (less than $10) and one bottle lasts me with 6 tanks MONTHS.

The frogs will get use to their light - they have no eyelids so when you first turn it on it will startle them, but they will settle in quickly. Can't wait for pictures of their new home!

I can't speak for Ammloc, but the product I referred to - Prime - actually does detoxify ammonia, nitrite and nitrate unless you know something about Seachem's products that they don't - in which case you may want to alert them to edit their product description before they cause the death of millions of fish and other aquatic pets.

"Product Description:
Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime® also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water."

As I said in my initial post though, its probably still best to do partial water changes when they reach the higher levels to be on the safe side. Anyway, that's just something that I've found works for me while (according to the product description) not being harmful to the inhabitants of the tank... I'm in no way forcing anyone to follow my path.

Edit: In case anyone is interested in more detail, this is an extract form the Seachem website:

"Why It's (Prime) Different:
Nearly all companies manufacture a product that removes chlorine. None of those, however, can compare in quality, concentration, or effectiveness to Seachem’s flagship product: Prime®. Prime® is the second most concentrated dechlorinator on the market after our own aquavitro alpha™. A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water. Prime® will remove both chlorine and chloramines from municipal water supplies.

Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.

Be very careful when purchasing water conditioners. If your municipality includes chloramines in the water supplies, a standard sodium thiosulfate dechlorinator is not enough. Prime® promotes the natural production and restoration of the slime coat rather than relying on artificial or non-native slime compounds. A further bonus for the reef hobbyist—Prime® will not overactivate protein skimmers."

[Kristen87]

This morning I found eggs in my tank so they can't be all that stressed. I do worry about them breeding so much but I'll save that for another thread so other members can reference it.
I'll post pictures once I have their new tank all set up to my liking. Thanks again everyone!

Wow that's cool about the eggs! You'd think that must be a good sign since animals don't usually breed in poor conditions but I don't know enough about ACFs to comment... Maybe they're just super prolific lol. Most people would love to be in your position. Would be interested to read the responses when you post about them breeding once a month too, sounds pretty extreme!

[0h hey]

I uploaded pictures of my frog children for those who are interested. As I mentioned in another thread when I bought them they had been dyed. :| I did not know anything about acfs at the time. The link to the album should show up in my profile now.