Harsh words = no help!!

[GrifTheGreat]

Alright guys. Let me lay it down for you. The point is (PUBLIC HUMILIATION AND RIDICULE!) She is trying to stop this by having your fights and scoldings done through PM rather than out where everyone can see and read it. What she is saying makes perfect sence and you all are arguing for nothing. All points aside its obviously getting nowhere. Some thing should be better done in private.

Now I'm no stranger to "giving what for" to those who have bad husbandry due to lack of research and diliborate abuse of their animals for their amusement or because they saw it on YouTube. The point is that we want members and guests to come back and stay here not leave because someone was overly harsh. There is a right way to say they did wrong by their pet publically without truely offending the person.

Believe me I know first hand.

[ViperJr]

I'm done with this...........you just aren't getting it.

To be honest, I'm not sure that it's that I don't get you, as much as it's you not getting me. Perhaps, it's a mix of both.

I suggest using the PM system for negative responses.

I understand what you are saying, but if the forum is supposed to be "positive" responses alone, it's not going to be much of a forum and no discussion at all. Unless you're talking about being simply mean/rude without any help at all, and if that's the case, it should not be PMed at all, but rather left out all together.

Alright guys. Let me lay it down for you. The point is (PUBLIC HUMILIATION AND RIDICULE!) She is trying to stop this by having your fights and scoldings done through PM rather than out where everyone can see and read it. What she is saying makes perfect sence and you all are arguing for nothing. All points aside its obviously getting nowhere. Some thing should be better done in private.

Now I'm no stranger to "giving what for" to those who have bad husbandry due to lack of research and diliborate abuse of their animals for their amusement or because they saw it on YouTube. The point is that we want members and guests to come back and stay here not leave because someone was overly harsh. There is a right way to say they did wrong by their pet publically without truely offending the person.

Believe me I know first hand.

"PUBLIC HUMILIATION AND RIDICULE" is of course not good. "fights and scoldings" should be done by PM, I agree. But I was not talking for any of those things, and I'm pretty sure wasn't Poly either. We both agreed with kueluck, tgampper and Jenste on that point. What we really said was this: "There is a right way to say they did wrong by their pet publically without truely offending the person", which you said yourself. Everyone agrees that it's bad to just flame someone. So, I find your "you all are arguing for nothing" strange, since we basically said the same thing, you, me and Poly (on that subject).

[GrifTheGreat]

To be honest, I'm not sure that it's that I don't get you, as much as it's you not getting me. Perhaps, it's a mix of both.



I understand what you are saying, but if the forum is supposed to be "positive" responses alone, it's not going to be much of a forum and no discussion at all. Unless you're talking about being simply mean/rude without any help at all, and if that's the case, it should not be PMed at all, but rather left out all together.



"PUBLIC HUMILIATION AND RIDICULE" is of course not good. "fights and scoldings" should be done by PM, I agree. But I was not talking for any of those things, and I'm pretty sure wasn't Poly either. We both agreed with kueluck, tgampper and Jenste on that point. What we really said was this: "There is a right way to say they did wrong by their pet publically without truely offending the person", which you said yourself. Everyone agrees that it's bad to just flame someone. So, I find your "you all are arguing for nothing" strange, since we basically said the same thing, you, me and Poly (on that subject).

Everyone has a different perspective of the same point. Me saying you all are arguing for nothing is not stange. Understand that if you all agree on the subject, then why are you 3 arguing about the same point? Instead of you 3 going back and forth over a something you agree on which if you think about it, its silly. You all agree with each other yet you and Royce are ganging up on Gail and even with Royce being a smart*** to Gail. Saying "yeah yeah, We got it Gail. Ill respond to your PM now" is uncalled for.If you all agree than why are you 3 arguing?

It doesn't make sence.

[ViperJr]

Everyone has a different perspective of the same point. Me saying you all are arguing for nothing is not stange. Understand that if you all agree on the subject, then why are you 3 arguing about the same point? Instead of you 3 going back and forth over a something you agree on which if you think about it, its silly. You all agree with each other yet you and Royce are ganging up on Gail and even with Royce being a smart*** to Gail. Saying "yeah yeah, We got it Gail. Ill respond to your PM now" is uncalled for.If you all agree than why are you 3 arguing?

It doesn't make sence.

First of all, my post have been cluttered with "personally", "I find", "I think", "I beleive" etc. This means I'm talking about my opinion on these subjects, not necessarily what's objectively right or wrong. I said that I, personally, In my humble opinion, find your statement that we are all arguing for nothing, is a little bit strange, since we are not. We are agreeing on some points, but not on some other. A civilized discussion between people with different opinion is not "for nothing". I do agree with some of the things that have been said here, which I have state several times already. But then again, I have a different opinion on some of the things that are talked about. People having different opinions, and the heart to talk about them, is nothing but good, as long as people know how to discuss without thinking that they are attacked personally. Which leads me to my next point...

You all agree with each other yet you and Royce are ganging up on Gail

How am I ganging up with anyone? Because we have the same opinion..? If so, then you, tgampper, Jenste and kauluck are all horribly ganging up on me, assaulting me even! Of course, that's not the case, and you are not ganging up. Just as I did not gang up with anyone. I just said what I believed, and it's not agreed by everyone, but then again, some do agree. Nothing strange or assaulting in that. I really beleive that people (in general) need to discuss without feeling attacked. I think this subject is a very good one to discuss, and it obviously is since there are different opinions about it. The keyword is just to discuss, not just blinding scream at and flame everyone that does not share your opinions.

If you all agree than why are you 3 arguing?

Just to clarify one last time, since this was the ending question in your post: We are discussing because we have different opinions (about some things, while agreeing on others), simple as that. It sometimes seems like this forum in general (not saying that you or anyone else in this discussion thinks this) treats discussion as bad thing and that it should be avoided by all means. That's bad, if you ask me. Discussion is good. Discussion is a way of learning and sharing opinions. People just need to learn that it's the topic that are discussed, not the people. A forum is meant to be a place where discussion is held, just look at actual word "forum"


EDIT1: I just want to say again, that I personally think sending an angry PM to someone is far more intimidating that replying with a post. But that could very well be just me. (And again, just being plainly mean is not good in any way)

EDIT2: Lastly, I'm done clarifying what a discussion is, and will therefore not adress that anymore. I've delivered my opinion and beliefs on this topic. I will continue following this thread, but only reply to "new information", so to say. I hope everyone reads this thread, since it's a good subject to discuss!

[Flemish]

To my opinioun, it does not serve "greater purpose" to flame a person in PM.
- Flaming a person for any concidered to be "wrong doing" should not take place at all....
(Sending it in PM does only serve purpose leave "rest of us at peace") (!)
Better to sit on the hands... Or leave the computer!
- If one on the other hand should feel strong urge to do so, better to it in the open. That takes more guts to do so!!
It is just being too easy hiding behind a screen flaming another person, which is why it should not take place at all...
(If pointing your finger at another person... 3 fingers points towards yourself!)

- I hope this post is being recieved by everyone as neutral, not directed to any in specific!

Flemming.

[GrifTheGreat]

To my opinioun, it does not serve "greater purpose" to flame a person in PM.
- Flaming a person for any concidered to be "wrong doing" should not take place at all....
(Sending it in PM does only serve purpose leave "rest of us at peace") (!)
Better to sit on the hands... Or leave the computer!
- If one on the other hand should feel strong urge to do so, better to it in the open. That takes more guts to do so!!
It is just being too easy hiding behind a screen flaming another person, which is why it should not take place at all...
(If pointing your finger at another person... 3 fingers points towards yourself!)

- I hope this post is being recieved by everyone as neutral, not directed to any in specific!

Flemming.

Its not about guts its about respect. If someone has done wrong they need to be told so. Leaving a PM can be respectful if you imply that you are doing so as to not exspress it in the open. This Forum is for learning. So if a person has done wrong or continues to do so they should be informed with little to no rudeness or humiliation. It should be avoided. Those who just don't care they are doing wrong is a different story all together.

Non the less we should be respectful and constructive not destructive.

[GrifTheGreat]

First of all, my post have been cluttered with "personally", "I find", "I think", "I beleive" etc. This means I'm talking about my opinion on these subjects, not necessarily what's objectively right or wrong. I said that I, personally, In my humble opinion, find your statement that we are all arguing for nothing, is a little bit strange, since we are not. We are agreeing on some points, but not on some other. A civilized discussion between people with different opinion is not "for nothing". I do agree with some of the things that have been said here, which I have state several times already. But then again, I have a different opinion on some of the things that are talked about. People having different opinions, and the heart to talk about them, is nothing but good, as long as people know how to discuss without thinking that they are attacked personally. Which leads me to my next point...



How am I ganging up with anyone? Because we have the same opinion..? If so, then you, tgampper, Jenste and kauluck are all horribly ganging up on me, assaulting me even! Of course, that's not the case, and you are not ganging up. Just as I did not gang up with anyone. I just said what I believed, and it's not agreed by everyone, but then again, some do agree. Nothing strange or assaulting in that. I really beleive that people (in general) need to discuss without feeling attacked. I think this subject is a very good one to discuss, and it obviously is since there are different opinions about it. The keyword is just to discuss, not just blinding scream at and flame everyone that does not share your opinions.



Just to clarify one last time, since this was the ending question in your post: We are discussing because we have different opinions (about some things, while agreeing on others), simple as that. It sometimes seems like this forum in general (not saying that you or anyone else in this discussion thinks this) treats discussion as bad thing and that it should be avoided by all means. That's bad, if you ask me. Discussion is good. Discussion is a way of learning and sharing opinions. People just need to learn that it's the topic that are discussed, not the people. A forum is meant to be a place where discussion is held, just look at actual word "forum"


EDIT1: I just want to say again, that I personally think sending an angry PM to someone is far more intimidating that replying with a post. But that could very well be just me. (And again, just being plainly mean is not good in any way)

EDIT2: Lastly, I'm done clarifying what a discussion is, and will therefore not adress that anymore. I've delivered my opinion and beliefs on this topic. I will continue following this thread, but only reply to "new information", so to say. I hope everyone reads this thread, since it's a good subject to discuss!

It seems like an arguement rather than a discussion because one member that disagreed on your opinions which was seconded by Royce showing you both agreed on the same thing which inturn is frustrating and obviously makeing Gail feel ganged up on to the point to where she no longer wants to respond to a thread she started in the first place.. Since you both reply nack to her at the same time on the same pos and even with sarchasm which in itelf is rude and unecessary. When you voice your opinion in a pushy manner or use sarchasm in a "discussion" it quickly turns to arguement. I've said it a million times "There are no friendly arguements or discussions" now of course not always true, but every friendly discussion I've ever encountered on here that contains difference of opinion which all are entitled too, it ends like this. One or more people angry when all should have been avoided rather than fueled.

I myself agree with both sides. As you both are right and I w hope you all can see that. Since there is a right way to tell someone they are wrong publically without offending them and using the PM to voice your feelings twards them on their wrongful actions. Now they will feel personally attacked IF you make it so. How we word our replies shows a lot about us does it not? To as you said flame someone infers to really lay into them which probably contains insults as well. I believe this is where ill leave this discussion because ive stated my opinion and so have you all and everyone here has made very valid points and I feel it is settled. You agree and disagree and rather to try and change someone elses opinion it should be respected and let be.

I think we all can agree on that

[ViperJr]

It seems like an arguement rather than a discussion because one member that disagreed on your opinions which was seconded by Royce showing you both agreed on the same thing which inturn is frustrating and obviously makeing Gail feel ganged up on to the point to where she no longer wants to respond to a thread she started in the first place.. Since you both reply nack to her at the same time on the same pos and even with sarchasm which in itelf is rude and unecessary. When you voice your opinion in a pushy manner or use sarchasm in a "discussion" it quickly turns to arguement. I've said it a million times "There are no friendly arguements or discussions" now of course not always true, but every friendly discussion I've ever encountered on here that contains difference of opinion which all are entitled too, it ends like this. One or more people angry when all should have been avoided rather than fueled.

I just have to answer to this one last them, then I'm all good and onto observer-mode.
Yes, we did answered at the same time, but that was just a coincidence and we had nothing to do with each other. When I started typing, no registered member was even reading the thread. He both started and finished his reply within the time it took me to write mine, so that's not relevant in any way. I'm not aware of me ever using sarcasm (in this thread) either.

One or more people angry when all should have been avoided rather than fueled.

Not sure who you are referring to. No-one should be angered by this. People have just expressed their opinion, and then I explained some thing further to you (since this particular discussion has pretty much been between you and me alone) and you replied, and I sure are not angry.
I also find this "discussions are bad (almost) always bad" so, so strange on a forum. If discussions are to be avoided, I should probably stop posting all together on FF (or if just you and I keep our distances )

(According to many dictionaries I've just checked (both online and paperback), argument = discussion, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to say when "discussions turns into arguments". Not trying to sound rude, I'm just not understanding entirely, since English isn't my native language)

Lastly, I just want to press that I'm not angered or offended by any of this and I hope I have not angered anyone, because that was never my intention. However, I really beleive people need to be able to handle other people not agreeing with them, especially when posting on a public forum on ze internet

[GrifTheGreat]

I just have to answer to this one last them, then I'm all good and onto observer-mode.
Yes, we did answered at the same time, but that was just a coincidence and we had nothing to do with each other. When I started typing, no registered member was even reading the thread. He both started and finished his reply within the time it took me to write mine, so that's not relevant in any way. I'm not aware of me ever using sarcasm (in this thread) either.


Not sure who you are referring to. No-one should be angered by this. People have just expressed their opinion, and then I explained some thing further to you (since this particular discussion has pretty much been between you and me alone) and you replied, and I sure are not angry.
I also find this "discussions are bad (almost) always bad" so, so strange on a forum. If discussions are to be avoided, I should probably stop posting all together on FF (or if just you and I keep our distances )

(According to many dictionaries I've just checked (both online and paperback), argument = discussion, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to say when "discussions turns into arguments". Not trying to sound rude, I'm just not understanding entirely, since English isn't my native language)

Lastly, I just want to press that I'm not angered or offended by any of this and I hope I have not angered anyone, because that was never my intention. However, I really beleive people need to be able to handle other people not agreeing with them, especially when posting on a public forum on ze internet

Lol! No worries Martin. I'm not angered either. Gail seemed to get angry before the end of her posting. That's who I referred to as being angry. I said that when a discussion turns into an arguement it should be avoided. I wish that everyone would just respect one anothers opinion rather than try to change it. When we try to change someones opinion it usually ends in conflict. Since we both respect others opinions why should we avoid one another? we are not arguing, we are discussing correct? Do not misunderstand my intent. since all is well I think we ended on a good note.