Vertical Conversion of “Zilla Critter Keeper” for tree frogs

[Kristen]

No Kristen, I'm afraid she is not eating on her own.
I'm am , yet again, faced with likely having to force feed her.
I'm thinking !
Thank You for asking about her , Lynn

Aw too bad Hopefully in time she will eventually start eating on her own.
Thats okay

[flybyferns]

Hi All,
Okay So I am moving along with my plan to put Boggie back in w/the Red Eyed Tree Frogs.
Yes, back in with the red eyed tree frogs- A. callidryas
Sadly, I had to force feed for her the 4th time since I move her into her own enclosure.

I have not witness her eat in this enclosure since I moved her on March 3rd.
It is impossible to miss any uneaten crickets/feed. I use feeding bowls and have very simple substrate.
Crickets cannot go unaccounted for- on the floor of this enclosure.

I am baffled ! I have tried everything except:
1)moving her back in w/ the red eyes and “monitor her weight”
2) removing the mist king ( which I installed 3 weeks prior to the move)
(I have considered the tubing vibration bothering her; my red eyes, however, seem completely unaffected by the mist king , and in fact sit on the tubing while it is misting)
3) Possible parasitic infestation?
She continues to look quite well but a speck thinner. Photos from this morning taken throught he glass :





Sunday past ( in the following order) I weighed her, fed her, and gave her a pedi soak. I am waiting for a poop ( hopefully ) from the Sunday feed to have tested for parasites. She has previously had a week flagyl soaks. I am assuming I should wait a bit before, possibly, exposing her to any additional antibiotics. I have Pancar C ( powder form ) on hand. However, I cannot dust the food with it because she does not eat.

I purchased her as a froglet in 2009. I cannot imagine that moving her back in w/ the red eyes (where she lived since late Nov 2009) could be more stressful than continuing to force feed her!!!

When 2 additional moreletii are properly quarantined and are big enough to be with her, I will move them all back into her new enclosure( late summer ?) Two of Michael Novy’s new A. moreletii tads have my name on them.

Any and all constructive criticism is welcomed as I am not thinned skinned in any way and appreciate any guidance and ideas.

Thanks Lynn

[helm96]

Good luck, I hope that this gets Boggie acting normal again!

[flybyferns]

Good luck, I hope that this gets Boggie acting normal again!

Thanks, Will

[killerecho]

Lynn, I'm a little late to this thread - sorry you're having problems. I have more questions than answers at this point, but hopefully, they'll put us on the right track.

Have you spoken with Mike Novy about this? I faced a similar scenario with my yellow eyes not long ago and he advised using metronidazole and duramycin. I did the first and it seemed to produce good results.

Does she wake and move around at night? Have you tried to physically move her in front of the feeding bowl? Have you considered letting the crickets roam around or using a larger feeding bowl to encourage more movement from them?

What makes you think moving Boggie in with the red eyes would help now? I've never known tree frogs to get genuinely "lonely" to the point of not eating. I'm sure you're aware of the risks of mixing species - do you think its wise at this point?

[flybyferns]

Hi Brian,
Moving her BACK in with the red eyes ( where she always lived) is the ONLY thing I have not tried.
In fact, as it turns out , the stress of moving her is how she got into this perplexing situation in the first place.
(Yes, lots of different opinions about that ) However, I WILL follow my my gut! I did use the metronidazole treatment which ended on 4/10.
She did rally--- then all came to a stand still. She is not "lonely" like in the human sense of the word. But , YES, so stressed w/ the move that she stopped eating.
It starts to pile up. i.e. move-stress-affects the appetite-opportunistic bug starts to get the better of her-more stress -soaks- more stress-handling- more stress - metronidazole - more stress- no food - more stress and so on . Before you know it, it's a mess. I contacted Dr Frye today(I will send you the link).
We have a plan . I am hoping things will get better soon.

Thank You for asking !!! Lynn

[flybyferns]

Boggie -- up-date
Moving Boggie back ? must wait until she is done w/ the( repeat) metronidazole drops/ treatment.
(otherwise I will never know when she eats for the first time -by herself-in 5 1/2 weeks )
Then, I may have to de-worm her IF she has anymore diarrhea between now and then.
Today is day 4 of 10-- of the metronidazole. I fed her Sunday - 4/29

I got so excited, last night, to see she was definitively hunting!
But only for a for a minute or so, then took a catnap on the leaf she was on.
I got up twice and found her poking around. She was very active last night.

I could not make catching a cricket easier for her.
One small bowl w/ crickets in a planter 1/2 way up the enclosure wall (18”up), a larger bowel w/ crickets is on the floor.
AND, there are free roaming ones on the floor of the viv. Any other ideas are REALLY, REALLY , more than welcome.
A little hunting is better than nothing. It was good to see.
Nothing missing again this am.

I have wax worm pupae ready to hatch.
Maybe a moth will get her attention !

Thanks for all the support and PM's


photo-a few minutes ago after application of metronidazole drops
Lynn

[Heatheranne]

She's looking good. I hope she eats for you soon! You are such a good mom!

[flybyferns]

She's looking good. I hope she eats for you soon! You are such a good mom!

"Heath"
And you are a good FF friend!!! Thank You!
She is exhausting !

I wish someone would say: " I know exactly what you need to do, and exactly what will get her to eat "
Wishful thinking. I will continue to stumble along ( but in good company )
Lynn

[Heatheranne]

Awe, thanks! So are you!

I know exactly what you mean. I'm thinking about starting Twigs on flagyl to see if I can stimulate his appetite. Not that I mind feeding him, but it's not natural, and he's still in his own tank bc it's hard to find him in the big viv. If I can't find him, I can't feed him. I love my little stinker, but it's tough.

I'll keep crossing my fingers for you!

[flybyferns]

I had to make a split second decision!
Boggie was shedding on the front of the door.
I'm watching her, and all of a sudden ............it hits me.

YES - I tricked her.
I dropped a cricket in when she stretched her mouth nice and wide.
Down the hatch it went !! She swallowed nicely as usual and kept right shedding.
It's kind of cheating --- but much better then force feeding !!!!!

[killerecho]

Good thinking Lynn! That's not cheating; it's resourcefulness

[DonLisk]

Wow, thats awesome :-)

[Heatheranne]

Great idea!

[flybyferns]

GREAT, GREAT NEWS !!!!
Yes! It looks like I have a missing crickets from last night, actually from this morning.

I woke at 5:30 to find her sitting on the divide looking like she was going to pounce.
I immedialey left so I would not bother her.
It is a common behavior of hers , to get up at night after the RETFs , and still be up (when I get up) the in the morning.

I have waited all day for the missing cricket to show up.
There is a ,very, slight possibility it is in a plant. But, I don't think so.

Six weeks without catching her own cricket !!!!

Lynn

[Heatheranne]

That's so awesome!!! I hope she ate it .

[flybyferns]

Boggie - Up-date:
A few photos from, very ,early this AM -- of the spoiled rotten brat - during and after a pedi soak.

12 hours after her 1st , weekly, Panacur dose. I dropped a cricket into her mouth ,again, during a shed to get the panacur into her.
WOW! does that work well. No stressful / handling necessary !!!!
I get it all ready. When she closes her eyes and opens her mouth. Down the hatch it goes!!!












Taking it day-by-day
Lynn

[Heatheranne]

She's so cute! I'm impressed with your technique .

[helm96]

It is so hard not to spoil them, they are like little kids! She is soooo cute!!!!!

[flybyferns]

Anorexic--- A. moreletii
One week ago I found I had one missing cricket.
Review:
I have 2 enclosures- tall , well planted, well suited for tree frogs and monitored carefully
Boggie( black eye---- A moreletii) was moved into her own (my 2nd viv --created specifically for her- on 3/3/12 ) after living w/ RETFs for a year and a half
All my frogs ( excet one ) ( over the past > 2 1/2 years) – were quarantined for at least 6 weeks or greater
The "except one" was a rescue and was in quarantine for 6 months- vet treated for very bad abrasions
That was that after moving her - she stopped eating and then developed intermittent diarrhea just about the same time I started a metronidazole / soaking treatment to stimulate her appetite. No luck !

She has completed a repeated liquid metronidazole drops/ treatment ( duration 14 days ) Vet Rx
She has had --as of Sunday night, 2 doses of Panacur ( which will be weekly for 4 doses) vet Rx
She has had, along the way intermitted pedi soaks and force feedings
In between these 2- recent - panacur doses she had 2 poops -one was diarrhea and one normal – in that order ?
How do I administer a cricket dusted w/ panacur to a frog that does not eat ?
I get it all ready- sit there- and wait for her to shed. When she closes her eyes and opens her mouth –I drop it in.
This method is working really well , and reduces the stress of handling and force feeding.
Sunday night she had this 2nd panacur/dusted cricket and one additional small cricket w/the usual vits and calcium.
She has looked good throughout all of this- w / the exception of a few days prior to starting the 2nd vet Rx- liquid metronidazole
She gets up, soaks, and makes believe she is hunting - but does NOT eat. I have witnessed her in the cricket bowl!
No weight loss- she still weighs the same as she did 1 week after I moved her. ( I have weighed her 3X since 3/10ish)
I am quite positive she did grab her own cricket 1 week ago
A wax worm moth got her attention ! I cannot find it?
I can, very accurately, keep track of crickets as my substrate is very simple.
I feed on the floor and in bowls
I know exactly what I put in and remove the next day w/ a head count for both enclosures
I have 5 RETFs in the tank she came form- all are well -NONE have has any diarrhea, are active, and eat well

I am excited about my delivery of 3 froglet A. moreletii (form Michael Novy) next week.
They are young and will have to be in a nursery/quarantine enclosure for quite some time.
If all goes well, maybe, just maybe , by late July early August she will have a “little community” and company this enclosure?
There is a lot of work ahead to prepare this viv for the addition of these 3 babies ! !

5:30 this AM ---- " make believe hunting"





Thanks for reading and following along , your support and comments are very much appreciated as always.
Lynn