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Thread: Cage aggression

  1. #1
    Mikey
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    Default Cage aggression

    Am I the only one that fears I may at some point lose a digit? It's only my males, but every time I go near the front of the rack they are smashing the side of rack (biting). I open the rack to see whats up and they look up at me and try to bite me. I temp gun each on they are 80-80.8 sitting in their water dishes. They all ate their full 2 days ago. This was dandy when they were younger, some might say pretty damn cute. But at 1.5lb -3lbs depending on the male its getting annoying having to work around them while they lunge at my hand.

    any advice

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  3. #2
    Beardo
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Having worked with the most venomous spiders, scorpions and snakes on the planet, I don't think you should worry too much about a frog. lol

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by Beardo View Post
    Having worked with the most venomous spiders, scorpions and snakes on the planet, I don't think you should worry too much about a frog. lol
    That's really cool Dave. I had a Black Widowe as a pet once. Very aggressive spider. Also a Rosey Haired Tarantula, but have you ever seen the teeth on a near adult or adult male Pyxie(Giant African Bullfrog). Mikey's worry is with good reason. They have very larg very sharp teeth as well as powerful jaws to back them up. While the bite won't be venomous it sure will hurt and cause some farely deep wounds. I wouldn't want to be bitten either and especially not while doing maintainance or feeding.


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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Mikey do you have any Kevlar Gloves Lol! . I know you do the bare minimum of handling when it comes to your frogs as is required. I believe that is is common for the agressive species to become threatening twards their owner. Its in their nature to do so. El Noob has a male Pyxie named Bruce and he has similar problems with his brute. I guess you could show more attension to them to show you are not a threat. I belive like most male animals they also become more aggressive during the months they breed in. I'm not sure what the season is in Africa right now, but could be possible that their internal clock is still set for African times, but that's a far stretch considering they were born here. I'm planning on getting a Pyxie later on so I might have the same problem. I would try to give more attention to show you're not a threat. Might help, but I am no expert.


  6. #5
    Surrealasm
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    That's really cool Dave. I had a Black Widowe as a pet once. Very aggressive spider. Also a Rosey Haired Tarantula, but have you ever seen the teeth on a near adult or adult male Pyxie(Giant African Bullfrog).
    Came here to say that I've kept a couple Latredectus as well, really fascinating arachnids.

    My advice to Dave is to try to get into the perspective of the frog. Remember what they eat and what they look for in prey. Also, keep in mind that animals don't have as much knowledge of their environments as we do. That's why I try to limit flipping light switches on and off (nowhere in nature does light suddenly appear in the same way that it does when you turn on your lights). Also, if you're standing over their cage, they might be terrified and defenseless. Think about Odysseus and Polyphemus.

    Hope this advice helps, and if you're curious about looking more into "animal psychology" there's a great book by Temple Grandin. She's autistic, and is employed by major meat plant industries to help reduce stress on their livestock. It's an extremely fascinating book, whether or not you are into the ethics of hamburgers.

  7. #6
    Mikey
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealasm View Post
    Came here to say that I've kept a couple Latredectus as well, really fascinating arachnids.

    My advice to Dave is to try to get into the perspective of the frog. Remember what they eat and what they look for in prey. Also, keep in mind that animals don't have as much knowledge of their environments as we do. That's why I try to limit flipping light switches on and off (nowhere in nature does light suddenly appear in the same way that it does when you turn on your lights). Also, if you're standing over their cage, they might be terrified and defenseless. Think about Odysseus and Polyphemus.

    Hope this advice helps, and if you're curious about looking more into "animal psychology" there's a great book by Temple Grandin. She's autistic, and is employed by major meat plant industries to help reduce stress on their livestock. It's an extremely fascinating book, whether or not you are into the ethics of hamburgers.
    I am not standing over their cages, they are face to face with me for the most part or face (frog) to my belly. I highly doubt they are confusing me for food. Also the lighting stays the same thru how the day. Very dim. At no time are they bombarded with lights. Interesting read you recommended thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Mikey do you have any Kevlar Gloves Lol! . I know you do the bare minimum of handling when it comes to your frogs as is required. I believe that is is common for the agressive species to become threatening twards their owner. Its in their nature to do so. El Noob has a male Pyxie named Bruce and he has similar problems with his brute. I guess you could show more attension to them to show you are not a threat. I belive like most male animals they also become more aggressive during the months they breed in. I'm not sure what the season is in Africa right now, but could be possible that their internal clock is still set for African times, but that's a far stretch considering they were born here. I'm planning on getting a Pyxie later on so I might have the same problem. I would try to give more attention to show you're not a threat. Might help, but I am no expert.
    Grif,
    Very insightful help as always. I'm to the point that I may use gloves with changing water bowls. I have come centimeters from being grabbed when the frog just lies there pretending to not be interested and lounges at my fingers. it just isnt safe imo. Once I move the frog their is no aggression. Luckily I have delt with boa constrictors, snakes, snapping turtles for the majority of my life so I am in no way afraid of the frog's, I would just rather avoid a hospital visit from a bite. I have seen what these frogs can do to large prey, I have also been bitten by a juvie (1lb or less) and it was a mess of blood. If a big boy got ahold of me It would suck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beardo View Post
    Having worked with the most venomous spiders, scorpions and snakes on the planet, I don't think you should worry too much about a frog. lol
    No dis-respect because the ramifications of getting bitten by a Mamba, or a slew of different spiders are quiet different than what I am dealing with, but that being said calling it a "frog" and disregarding the potential these "frogs" have for inflicting damage is absurd.

    It comes down to whether you want 2 small nails drilled into your hand from a head capable of killing large rats... Not sure if your into s and m, but ill avoid that the best I can.


    Is it breeding season? I have noticed non-stop croaking, day and night. That may explain the aggression if thats the case.

  8. #7
    Beardo
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    I know they have "teeth" and I know they have powerful jaws......but compared to say a Savannah Monitor, Colombian Tegu, Green Tree Python, Reticulated Python......all of which I have taken bites from adults before, ANY frog is low on the worry scale for me, lol.

    I have kept arachnids that make Black Widows look like butterflies in terms venom toxicity and aggression.....its all about how you interact with the animal and how you use the tools at your disposal.

  9. #8
    Mikey
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    If your careful how would you ever even get bitten by all of those animals? I have had or previously have the above animals you listed as having "taken bites from adults before", and it kind of confuses me why would you ever be in the position to "take a bite" from any of them unless purposely antagonizing the animal to prove masculinity through "withstanding a bite"

    Regardless my concern is not whether YOU are willing to be bitten by my frogs, which if you are great, you can come over and change my water bowls if you want. I myself would like to avoid it and was simply asking the forum if they have dealt with similar aggression from large males at any given time of the year, and whether it will pass or not. I guess I will contact Eel Noob, or perhaps he could chime in.

  10. #9
    Beardo
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    If you have kept those animals, you know that you can get bit during feeding time pretty easily if the right circumstances are there. The Savannah Monitor was a rescue which I was medicating for a mouth wound.....I never used gloves because they took away from my ability to "feel" and manipulate the animal properly.

    The Tegu was not mine, it was a friends who we were trying to restrain to help get some stuck shed off one of their toes......again, no gloves.

    The Green Tree and Reticulated Bites were during feeding time where they bypassed the 14" hemostats I was using to hold the rodent and got my hand instead. Accidents happen to even the most cautious keepers. My point being that if you are worried or scared of your frogs, then maybe you should find a more placid species to work with. At no point was I ever afraid of the animals I kept, but I respected their ability to ruin my day.

  11. #10
    Mikey
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    You realize every detailed story you just gave me could have been avoided by having the intellect to where gloves? Accept maybe the treatment of the monitor. Believe it or not you can use gloves in combination with a hemastat I have seen it done once or twice.

    I guess I'm the type of person that would rather throw on gloves, than pick teeth out of my hand. Call it what you may.

    "you should find a more placid species to work with"

    Did I offend you? I didn't mean to call you out on your seemingly endless experience with every type of poisonous snake, spider, monitor ect that exists. Forgive my skepticism, as you must know everything.

  12. #11
    Beardo
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    You realize every detailed story you just gave me could have been avoided by having the intellect to where gloves?
    Again, not wearing gloves was a personal preference because wearing them takes away your ability to properly feel and control the animal properly. Also, I was never the type of person to be "squeamish" about the loss of blood. Getting bit, when you have kept the amount and types of animals that I have, comes with the territory.

    The only time I had to pick teeth out of my hand was when a 7' Taiwain Beauty Snake bit me as I opened its tub in a rack system.....



    Did I offend you? I didn't mean to call you out on your seemingly endless experience with every type of poisonous snake, spider, monitor ect that exists. Forgive my skepticism, as you must know everything.
    Rest assured my friend, that I have a much thicker skin than that, and it takes a lot to offend me, lol.

    But in all honesty, I am not exaggerating when I say I have kept literally thousands of species of reptiles, amphibians and invertebrates over the last 20 years. I have extensive experience with a wide variety of animals, but by no means do I know everything nor was I implying that.....it just cracks me up when I see people so worried over a rather harmless animal. I would rather take a bite from a full grown Pixie than from a juvenile Tegu any day of the week.

  13. #12
    Motob3000
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Beardo I think your missing the point. The OP had a question about his frog. Not about your experience with every animal on the planet. I have an aggressive pixie and was also curious if there might be a way to make them a little more friendly. He just doesn't want to get bitten by his frog. We dont care if an alligator has bitten you twice in the face while you were holding a cobra.

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  15. #13
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    My male African Bullfrog is passing 5 in. and since little, either wants to bite me or likes the game of scaring my hand away with his lounges. He target's my hand versus the 12 in. tweezer end holding it's food. Twice his mouth glanced my fingers but was not able to clamp on... lucky me. At his present growth rate will reach 7 or more inches this year and I do consider that as a good reason to wear gloves. I like Stilgar but don't trust him one bit.

    A friend was bitten by a juvenile and it clamped on one of his fingers and hung from it. Guy did not panic and lowered frog thinking it would let go but African Bullfrog started a grinding head shaking motion as if to detach finger food. That hurt lot's so he pulled back and tried to control frog and force mouth open with other hand. Frog finally fell off as it's razor sharp "teeth" sliced finger skin down to nail. Can imagine what a big male can do if it clamps down on a human finger.

    My recommendation is to stay alert at all times when hands are in cage and do wear gloves. Also, if ever get bitten; don't think that African Bullfrog will let go once it realizes it's you like some other frogs do. I do keep other animals that bite including venomous species and always treat them with great respect when feeding or habitat cleaning/transfers.
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  16. #14
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    I think everyone needs to cool off and get back to the reason this thread was made. No more stories and no more bragging rights. I've been bitten by wiid snakes/spiders/lizards/mice/Raccoon/Dogs/Cats etc and I am not a vet and don't work or one. My life is full of wounds and battle scars and yet non of what I just said helps prevent the aggression of Mikey's frog. A very aggressive species. One that should not be triffled with when it comes to a bite. They have the abillity to cause seriouse damage to arteries, veins, plus risk of infection. Gloves would be a good choice in this matter as well as letting your frog get to know you better and get used to you and your activities within it home. This way it no longer will feel threatened to the point of attacking you.


  17. #15
    Mikey
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by Motob3000 View Post
    Beardo I think your missing the point. The OP had a question about his frog. Not about your experience with every animal on the planet. I have an aggressive pixie and was also curious if there might be a way to make them a little more friendly. He just doesn't want to get bitten by his frog. We dont care if an alligator has bitten you twice in the face while you were holding a cobra.
    haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentat View Post
    My male African Bullfrog is passing 5 in. and since little, either wants to bite me or likes the game of scaring my hand away with his lounges. He target's my hand versus the 12 in. tweezer end holding it's food. Twice his mouth glanced my fingers but was not able to clamp on... lucky me. At his present growth rate will reach 7 or more inches this year and I do consider that as a good reason to wear gloves. I like Stilgar but don't trust him one bit.

    A friend was bitten by a juvenile and it clamped on one of his fingers and hung from it. Guy did not panic and lowered frog thinking it would let go but African Bullfrog started a grinding head shaking motion as if to detach finger food. That hurt lot's so he pulled back and tried to control frog and force mouth open with other hand. Frog finally fell off as it's razor sharp "teeth" sliced finger skin down to nail. Can imagine what a big male can do if it clamps down on a human finger.

    My recommendation is to stay alert at all times when hands are in cage and do wear gloves. Also, if ever get bitten; don't think that African Bullfrog will let go once it realizes it's you like some other frogs do. I do keep other animals that bite including venomous species and always treat them with great respect when feeding or habitat cleaning/transfers.
    Any recommendation on gloves, grif said kevlar, which I will have to pick up at the next show because the only kevlar gloves I have are studded with metal that i purchased for my monitors a few years back. I dont like the idea of the frogs teeth hitting metal and causing damage so I will get new gloves!

    thanks for your words of wisdom by the way I greatly appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    I think everyone needs to cool off and get back to the reason this thread was made. No more stories and no more bragging rights. I've been bitten by wiid snakes/spiders/lizards/mice/Raccoon/Dogs/Cats etc and I am not a vet and don't work or one. My life is full of wounds and battle scars and yet non of what I just said helps prevent the aggression of Mikey's frog. A very aggressive species. One that should not be triffled with when it comes to a bite. They have the abillity to cause seriouse damage to arteries, veins, plus risk of infection. Gloves would be a good choice in this matter as well as letting your frog get to know you better and get used to you and your activities within it home. This way it no longer will feel threatened to the point of attacking you.
    I appreciate the advice grif. as you stated above you recommend kevlar, Just trying to make sure thats the safest for both the frog and myself, do you have any experience with how animals react when biting kelvar gloves? I'll have to do a little bit of research but thats definatly an option when removing the water dish. Any handling will be done barehand like i've been doing for a few years

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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    ...Any recommendation on gloves, grif said kevlar, which I will have to pick up at the next show because the only kevlar gloves I have are studded with metal that i purchased for my monitors a few years back. I dont like the idea of the frogs teeth hitting metal and causing damage so I will get new gloves!

    thanks for your words of wisdom by the way I greatly appreciate it...
    Agree with your thoughts and would not use any metal studded or gloves made of metal fibers for same reasons we do not use metal tweezers. This page although of commercial interest has good info on glove selection and one of it's references takes you to an OSHA page on gloves: Cut Resistant Glove Selection and Use - Document #301 - EZ Facts Safety Info - Lab Safety Supply . Literally, think we would want something offering both cut and puncture resistance.

    There are specific gloves made for animal handling and if you Google "bite resistant gloves" will get to places like: Laboratory Safety Gloves - Kent Scientific Corporation with info and offerings.

    I have no knowledge of how an African Bullfrog would react to biting a gloved hand. Tend to think the synthetic material would be released within a few seconds. Stilgar once jumped and bite a fake plant in his tank during feeding and released it moments after. Did chomp off half a leaf of it, he, he, he. Good luck and hope this info helps you.
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  19. #17
    Beardo
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    While I have no experience with using gloves with frogs, I have tried them in the past with snakes, and while they do protect your hands, they can damage the offending animal's teeth and gums.....but of course since a Pixie's teeth are different than snake teeth they may work.

    To me, when wearing gloves you sacrifice mobility too much to make them worth it.....the thicker the glove, the stiffer they are usually. I wonder if something like a thick rubber glove might serve the purpose?

    That being said, I think the people looking to make their frogs more "friendly" are searching for a lost cause.....frogs inherently are not "friendly" towards humans. We are a potential predator to them, and no amount of anthropomorphizing will change what they have evolved into over the last few millenia. It seems that it is just in their nature for some specimens to be defensive.....its a trait that they have and no amount of "frog cuddling" will change that lol.

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by Beardo View Post
    While I have no experience with using gloves with frogs, I have tried them in the past with snakes, and while they do protect your hands, they can damage the offending animal's teeth and gums.....but of course since a Pixie's teeth are different than snake teeth they may work.

    To me, when wearing gloves you sacrifice mobility too much to make them worth it.....the thicker the glove, the stiffer they are usually. I wonder if something like a thick rubber glove might serve the purpose?

    That being said, I think the people looking to make their frogs more "friendly" are searching for a lost cause.....frogs inherently are not "friendly" towards humans. We are a potential predator to them, and no amount of anthropomorphizing will change what they have evolved into over the last few millenia. It seems that it is just in their nature for some specimens to be defensive.....its a trait that they have and no amount of "frog cuddling" will change that lol.
    I don't use gloves. Thick rubber may work, but nothing latex. I wouldn't want something that could have chunk bit off of which is why I said Kevlar. About making frogs domesticated you are wrong. I have proof here in my home of such a frog. Her name is Grif. She is a Pacman frog of Ceratophrys Cranwelli species. Absolutely no aggression or fear of me. She will be a year old at the end of this month. I can do whatever I want with here and she let's me know when she is ready to go back home when I have her out for a soak. She even will turn to look at me when I speak to her. She will even let me know when she wants to go back to her burrow if I'm holding her by acting like she is burrowing in my hands. She has complete trust with me.

    They are smart and do react to human contact. How all depends on us and how we behave with and around them. I spend time with my frogs during feeding and cleaning their homes. I speak to them like someone would a dog or even a child. They know mine and my fiance's voices. Loki my male will even call when he hears us speak loudly. You would be surprised how they respond to you once they trust you and know you as friend and care giver rather than a threat.


  21. #19
    Beardo
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    About making frogs domesticated you are wrong. I have proof here in my home of such a frog. Her name is Grif. She is a Pacman frog of Ceratophrys Cranwelli species. Absolutely no aggression or fear of me.
    Thats great and all, but we're talking about Giant Pixie Frogs here. I don't see what your Pacman Frog has to do with Pixies being aggressive. Different species = different behavior.

    She even will turn to look at me when I speak to her.
    You are anthropomorphizing your frog. Your frog does not respond to your voice. It cannot understand what you're saying. It is simply responding to (likely visual) stimuli in its environment (you or some other moving object).

    She has complete trust with me.
    This statement right here is literally impossible. "Trust" is a human emotion or feeling.....creatures such as frogs, whether you want to believe it or not, are incapable of such mental activity. Your frog does not trust you anymore than a rock or tree would. It simply is not in their wiring. You are projecting desired human traits onto an animal.....again, anthropomorphizing.

    Your frog responds to your voice because it thinks the noise it is hearing is another frog. I have had many frogs that would call or respond to various types of music.....thats does not mean "ZOMG my frog LOOOVES techno music! It makes him happy!"......they are simply not smart enough to differentiate between the 2 sounds. Nothing more.

  22. #20
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cage aggression

    Quote Originally Posted by Beardo View Post
    Thats great and all, but we're talking about Giant Pixie Frogs here. I don't see what your Pacman Frog has to do with Pixies being aggressive. Different species = different behavior.



    You are anthropomorphizing your frog. Your frog does not respond to your voice. It cannot understand what you're saying. It is simply responding to (likely visual) stimuli in its environment (you or some other moving object).



    This statement right here is literally impossible. "Trust" is a human emotion or feeling.....creatures such as frogs, whether you want to believe it or not, are incapable of such mental activity. Your frog does not trust you anymore than a rock or tree would. It simply is not in their wiring. You are projecting desired human traits onto an animal.....again, anthropomorphizing.

    Your frog responds to your voice because it thinks the noise it is hearing is another frog. I have had many frogs that would call or respond to various types of music.....thats does not mean "ZOMG my frog LOOOVES techno music! It makes him happy!"......they are simply not smart enough to differentiate between the 2 sounds. Nothing more.
    Just because your animals don't like you doesn't mean his animals don't like him!!

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