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Thread: White's Tree Frog input.

  1. #1
    Hydroshake
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    Default White's Tree Frog input.

    It's Winter now and I'm in New York so I'm guessing the best time to buy them would be Spring but I really want two as soon as possible. I've read through many threads on this site including the awesome care sheet. This is a really great forum.

    I'm going to buy:
    Exo Terra Rainforest Kit Medium (Should I buy extra plantation soil substrate?) Amazon.com: Exo Terra PT2607 Rainforest Habitat Kit, Medium: Pet Supplies
    Hydroton GMHT10L Hydroponic Grow Rocks Amazon.com: Hydroton GMHT10L Hydroponic Grow Rocks, 10 Liter Bag: Patio, Lawn & Garden
    Aquatize (dechlorinator) Amazon.com: Hagen Exo Terra Aquatize, 3.3-Ounce: Pet Supplies
    Biotize (conditioner/probiotic) Amazon.com: Hagen Exo Terra Biotize, 3.3-Ounce: Pet Supplies
    Repti-Glo 2.0 13watt or 26watt? (I've read that a regular fluorescent would also suffice) http://www.amazon.com/Repti-Glo-Comp...7880197&sr=8-1
    XL Bowl (I'll be using this for water once the two frogs grow to a larger size) XL Bowl - Food and Water Dishes | Josh's Frogs
    Multivitamin Rep-Cal Herptivite Multivitamin - Rep-Cal Supplements | Josh's Frogs
    A small glass bowl to put feeder insects

    New York is a pretty crappy place to keep a tropical pet due to the weather extremes. It gets really hot and humid in the summer (88+ degrees) and it gets pretty cold in the winter but I have the house heater on if it gets too cold. I'm going to get live plants but I'm still not sure which are the best for these frogs.

    Questions:
    What other items would you suggest I get to make the terrarium as self sufficient as possible/requiring lower maintenance?
    Best to have all live plants or some live and some fake?
    Which plants are most preferred by White's Tree Frogs in your experience?
    Plantation Soil vs ABG Mix vs Coconut substrate?
    If I treat the water with Biotize will I still need to switch the water out everyday?
    Phoenix Worms vs Dubia Roaches vs Crickets? Money is not an issue.
    Is there any place that sells screens I can use for the false bottom to separate the Hydrotons from the substrate or do I have to construct one myself?
    Opinions on Calcimine? Can enough calcium be absorbed through their skin? http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-Exo-Terr...upplies_text_c
    Is it a bad idea to get two babies as a beginner frog enthusiast?
    When will Josh's Frogs start selling White's Tree Frogs again? Their reviews are great.
    Best brand of 10% bleach cleaner or is making my own from Clorox just as good?
    Best ways/products to measure temperature/humidity? (I read that a temperature gun is for surface area and not air temperature)

    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydroshake View Post
    Questions:
    What other items would you suggest I get to make the terrarium as self sufficient as possible/requiring lower maintenance?
    You have selected some great items to get started and only missing the light fixture unless that comes with the kit and the plants and maybe some vines or a large piece of wood for them to climb on.

    Best to have all live plants or some live and some fake?
    I go with all live plants so i don't have to pull plastic ones out to clean.

    Which plants are most preferred by White's Tree Frogs in your experience?
    I would so with something like a tiger striped bromeliad since they have nice broad leaves, some snake plant, and maybe some pothos.

    Plantation Soil vs ABG Mix vs Coconut substrate?
    Can't go wrong with either choice.

    If I treat the water with Biotize will I still need to switch the water out everyday?
    Since your WTFs will be very active and pretty comical at times, they do tend to trash the water dish fast and i usually had to change mine daily. They defecate and carry substrate into the water nightly. Get some Leaf Liter for on top of the substrate to cut down on how dirty the frogs get. All you do is pour it in and let it deteriorate right into the substrate.


    Phoenix Worms vs Dubia Roaches vs Crickets? Money is not an issue.
    Cricket or the roaches or a mix of each.

    Is there any place that sells screens I can use for the false bottom to separate the Hydrotons from the substrate or do I have to construct one myself?
    Any hardware store should have window screen replacement rolls for about 6 bucks a roll. Trim it to have a 1/2 oninch extra on all sides.


    Opinions on Calcimine? Can enough calcium be absorbed through their skin? Amazon.com: Hagen Exo Terra Calcimine, 3.3-Ounce: Pet Supplies
    No, they have to digest it through feeding.


    Is it a bad idea to get two babies as a beginner frog enthusiast?
    Not at all as long as your keeping temps and humidity correct for them.
    Also meal size needs to be no longer than the distance between the frogs eyes so keep that in mine when looking at what food source you can obtain.

    When will Josh's Frogs start selling White's Tree Frogs again? Their reviews are great.
    Ask them on their chat otion on their site during the weekdays. You also have some good reptile shows in NYC and Whiteplains.

    Best brand of 10% bleach cleaner or is making my own from Clorox just as good?
    make your own but you will rarely need it with a fully planted viv.


    Best ways/products to measure temperature/humidity? (I read that a temperature gun is for surface area and not air temperature)
    Exactly. I like a good old fashion temp gauge that sticks on the side or the Zoo Med digital gauges. If buying the stick ones, just compare a few in the store and select one that is reading similar to others.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  4. #3
    Sierra
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    1st- I love that exoterra for my 2 whites, very easy to upkeep.
    2nd- you probably do not need to use the biotize, the aquatize will work just fine
    3rd - I prefer the Plantation soil
    4th- you will need to switch the water out every day, no matter if you use the biotize. The frogs will soak up the water, and they will bring some dirt into the water, making it nasty anyways, so just get the one water conditioner. I have a gallon of water that I refill, with pretreated water, that I just pour in after I rinse out the water dish.
    5th - my staple is crickets, it is easiest for me. But they will love variety, so if you have them at easy access, mix it up! I am not familiar with Pheonix worms, so I cannot say on those.
    6th - I think that the Calcimine is unnecessary. To prevent Calcimine, gut-load your crickets, and dust them with vitamins, that should be sufficient.
    7th - what are you thinking with the bleach cleaner?
    8th - the kit you are planning on buying includes the hydrometer/thermometer that you will need, they just stick to the side of the tank.
    9th - not sure on the Josh's Frogs.

    I don't feel that the false bottom and Hydrotons are necessary, are you just concerned about humidity? Just the plantation soil has done that for me on the bottom of mine.

    I do not have real plants in my tank, hopefully someone can give you more information on those. I have some fake fines & plants. Something I would consider getting is some driftwood and vines. My pair loves to climb on them! I think two juveniles would be a great start for you, I started with two adult rescue whites that have been happy campers for over a year now. I live in Wisconsin, which has a similar climate to New York, and although humidity is a challenge at times, it is doable with some extra spraying.
    I would buy the supplies, set the tank up, and see if you can get the levels to be what they should be in the tank. If you can reach them, you are ready for frogs!

    Feel free to message me with any other questions!

    You're doing a great job with the amount of work and research you are putting into this, very nice!

  5. #4
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    False or hydroton bottoms are to allow for drainage of the soil so live plant roots don't rot and so you do not have to change out your soil routinely due to it being saturated all the time.
    A planted viv with a good drainage system can go years without having the soil changed out.

  6. #5
    Hydroshake
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonLisk View Post
    only missing the light fixture
    Seeing as it's winter right now, what kind of bulb would you use? Your location says New Hampshire so I'm sure it gets even colder there than where I am.

    How many watts wouldn't damage their eyes but would still provide enough heat and have the best color range? My house heat isn't on all the time. Is getting one of the special Repti-Glo lights any better than a regular fluorescent?

    Are you a fan of sticking a heat mat with a thermostat to one side of the glass? Some say it can overheat and that a bulb would suffice. Which heat mat is best in your opinion?

    Thanks you guys! This forum rocks. I can't wait to get some frogs. I apologize if I'm asking way too many questions. I'm very detail oriented, I don't want to just dive in and possibly endanger a frog's well-being.

  7. #6
    JHansson514
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Don't worry about the questions. It's better to ask too many then not enough. I have that tank and I use a 100W ZooMed bulb for the day and a 75W ZooMed bulb for the night (at least in the winter, I use a little lower wattage in the summer). I also have a ZooMed heat pad on the underside of my tank, but I don't see a huge difference temperature wise and with the frogs being tree frogs, it's probably not necessary. I haven't heard of heat lights damaging the eyes of frogs, although I have read that some fluorescent or UVB bulbs can (it's up for debate). I do have a Repti Glo 2.0 (for plants) and 5.0 light on the tank. However, I do not use them very often.

  8. #7
    BettaShawn
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Sounds like you've done a good amount of homework, good job!
    The items you have picked out are pretty good. Again, good job. You shouldn't really have to worry about outside weather, unless you live on the streets or anything...just keep the house/apartment thermostat between 74 and 80 degrees.

    Q&A

    1. There isnt really any products out there making maintenance easier than it already is. Just spot clean and clean items regularly.

    2. It all depends on what you want the tank to look like. I prefer live plants because...they appear more lively (lol). Fake is still a good option.

    3. White's are pretty flexible as far as foliage goes. They might want to hang out on more broadleaved plants, and be sure to pick up some vines for climbing.

    4. You should try Eco-Earth. It is completely safe and is made of recycled material. It is a coconut fiber beading. Products you suggested are fine too, either one.

    5. Changing the water daily is a good habit to get into, but at the same time if you skip a day or two, its okay, nothing bad will go wrong.

    6. Crickets should be a staple in the White's diet. Also be sure to mix it up sometimes, fattening foods like phoenix worms or mealworms should be a treat, once weekly.

    7. A home improvement retail store like Home Depot should have them.

    8. Its not really necessary, but you can use it. Its better if you 'dust' the crickets/ food with calcium dust every other feeding.

    9. Not at all. Juveniles are somewhat less hardy, but its unlikely that they will die on you for no reason. Your tank can hold 1-2 adults max.

    10. I have no idea, but I bet you can find a good pet store in NY that sells em'. White's are widely sold in many pet retailers.

    11. I personally do not bleach my vivariums, I just spot clean daily and change out substrates or wipe down ornaments as needed.

    12. Any thermometer or hygrometer should work pretty well. The best option (temp/ humidity reading wise) would be to get an electronic one. They have a probe that measures exact temp/ humidity. Although, they are expensive so analog ones are still a good option.

    Good luck , and welcome to the frog hobby. Once you get in, THERE IS NO WAY OUT.

    Haha bye.

  9. #8
    Hydroshake
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHansson514 View Post
    a 75W ZooMed bulb for the night (at least in the winter, I use a little lower wattage in the summer)
    You use a bulb for night time? Doesn't that mess with their day/night cycle? I was under the impression that it had to be as dark as possible or with a blue/red light after the 30-60 day settle-in period.

  10. #9
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    My room temps are usually 70 or higher since the heating system in my apartment sucks.
    I use standard 24 watt compact florescent 6500K color temp bulbs and they add sufficient heat to get tank temps right.

    Sometimes its trial and error to get these things right. Tank depth, room temps, how much heat is lost through vented areas all play a part on what bulbs will give you the correct day and night temps in your enclosure. Even raising and lowering the light fixture has a big change on tank temps.

  11. #10
    JHansson514
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Yes, I do use a bulb at night and I have since the day I got them. It is a white bulb for the day and a red one at night. I use a night bulb because the tank would get much too cold without one, especially during the winter. In the summer I do not use one. The light amount between day and night is enough that they still experience the cycle. At night, their light is the only one on in the room so it is still pretty dark. As I'm sure you can tell, the lights are a little different for everyone. From what Don said, you can see his wattage is much lower than mine. Part of that could be because my house is kept around 65*F. If you can test out your bulbs for a few days to see how your tank handles temperature/humidity before you get the frogs, that's best.

  12. #11
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: White's Tree Frog input.

    Whites like a basking spot i have found. My WTFs always seem to pile up to get that spot just under the red night light. I only use a 15 watt bulb and temps are usually around 70 degrees at night mid tank and 72 near the top. My room varies during the night and is as low as 68 and then rockets to 75 to 78 as out apartment maintenance dept somehow has the heating system on a timer and no mater how low we set the thermostat it goes on.

    As Jen states, room temp has a lot to do with what bulb you will need. You will also have to take into consideration how much your top is vented since that is going to be where you have the most heat loss.
    that said, you don't want to close your tank right up since tree frogs should have good ventilation.
    Zoo Med actually has a new stick on fan for about 27 bucks now.

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