Lazy Red Eyed Tree Frog and Feeding Questions

[Jay Dunni]

Hello! Just looking for some advice for newbies. Checking in to see if we're doing it right.

We've had our two adult red-eyed tree frogs for about 2 months now (terrarium is 2ft x 1.5ft x 3ft tall). They're our first amphibians so we went a little overboard with all the bells and whistles.

Due to their size difference, and because only the little guy chirps, I'm pretty sure we have a male/female pairing. The little guy seems to be super healthy and active every night. However (maybe just because we're unexperienced worryworts?) we've always been a little anxious for the female since she's nowhere near as active. She'll wake up and hunt and move around every other couple of nights, but often appears to maintain one spot for two or three days at a time. When we do have to move her, she takes longer to open her eyes and react than the other one, however she doesn't seem to have any problems moving around once she's awake. Is that normal for a female or larger RETF? She's been this way since we got her.

I also read that someone had a special feeding dish for their RETFs. Is that recommended? We buy about 40 appropriately sized crickets and throw them in the cage with a little plate of grated carrots and don't go for more until their numbers get low again. We try to maintain a good balance between plants for climbing on but not too many hiding places for the crickets to get away.

Thanks!

[jasonm96]

Hey

I kept red-eyes many years ago, great frogs.

It's great that you provided such as large tank, many people want to fit their herps in the smallest tank they can but a large enclosure is best because red eyes and most tree frogs are very active and like to leap long distances. With a large amount of space, you need to be sure the frogs eat the crickets before the supplements wear off, so placing at least some of the crickets in a deep bowl will allow the frogs to easily eat them and prevent this problem. Remember to gut load the crickets before putting them in the tank. I wouldn't put as many as 40, in general up to 8 appropriate sized cricket is what I feed my tree frogs but a few extra, especially if put in the dish is fine.

The difference in size between males and females can be an easy way to sex them, so you may have a sexed pair. Especially if both are the same age. Growing frogs however may differ because some might be more greedy and eat more and thus may grow faster.

With the female not being so active, remember that if any lights red or dark blue used at night may disturb the frogs and they might not want to come out until the vivarium is in complete darkness. I prefer to use ceramic heat emitters connected to a pulse proportional thermostat if night time heat is needed and use dark blue reptile moonlight led strips to view the animals for a short period of time. Remember a drop in temperature at night also is beneficial, all my amphibians seem to be more active when provided with one.

On another note, one thing to remember with red eyes is do not keep them wet, especially out of the breeding season. Many caresheets recommend very high humidity for them and this could lead to bacterial infections, especially if the tank does not have a lot of ventilation. The best book on the care of red eyes in my opinion is the Popular tree frogs by Philippe de Vosjoli, Robert Mailloux and drew ready, worth a read if you're wanting to ensure proper conditions and learn lots about your frogs.

Jason

[Lija]

I bet the frogs are super happy with all the bells! So glad to hear somebody is actually not cramping them in a tiny space!
yeah, it's normal for them to be lazy, it's normal for all tree frogs.
If you could post a pic ( use photo hosting websites, then copy paste URL here) and describe the husbandry then we can check if you are doing all spot on or not quite.
Regarding crickets. Doing what you are doing is stressing frogs out, they also might bite a frog, that is why is not reccomended to keep uneaten crickets in a cage. And lastly like Jason noted, you need to dust your feeders with ca/vitd3 and multivitamins, you can't do it then.
The best way would be to have a separate plastic tub ( cricket keeper, kritter keeper), for 40 crickets I'd probably use kritter keeper in large size, put some egg trays, feed them lettuce, carrots, oranges, etc and take a few every time and feed to the frogs.

[Lija]

here are the questions we ask people to answer when there is a trouble in the enclosure, ignore medication/vet questions and try to answer the rest, we can look over and point if anything needs to be corrected.

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

[Jay Dunni]

Huge thanks for all of your helpful tips! I was definitely frustrated by all of the contradictions I found while reading various caresheets, and ended up going for the middleground as often as possible.

I will absolutely try out the deep bowl suggestion for feeding our frogs, and keep the rest of the crickets in a separate container. It seems so common sense now, but I also see that that's the only way to assure that the frogs are actually getting the vitamin powder. Mostly our frogs hang out in areas where the crickets are unable to reach them and we kept a close eye on them in the beginning to see if the crickets would attack, but it never happened to our knowledge. Again, not worth the risk, especially now that I know it could be stressing them out.

Summer is on its way, so soon we may not need the heating help, but it gets cold in the winter. We have been using a heating pad on the bottom as well as red lights to heat day and night as necessary (while still allowing for a temperature drop at night), and I'm beginning to think this may be the biggest contributing factor to our females apparent "laziness". There were two nights already this spring when it was warm enough to leave the lamps off at night and both nights she was active. We weren't certain if this was a coincidence or not, still won't know until things really warm up. Side note: we have heat and humidity gauges hanging in the terrarium and I use a thermometer gun to spot check neurotically since it's such a large enclosure. I had read that the red light wouldn't affect them negatively, but of course if it becomes apparent that that's the case, we'll invest in the ceramic heater and pulse proportional thermometer. That sounds awesome to have anyway.

As far as humidity goes, the exo terra terrarium does have excellent ventilation, but I was definitely under the assumption (from internet research) that humidity is good for them, so we have the water dish, a humidifier that only goes off a few times in the evening after we get home from work. It's more for us than them. And a fancy mist king system that goes off every three hours for a couple of seconds. The humidity seems to sit between 60-80%, aside from the spike every time the misting system goes off. I suppose we could reduce the misting frequency, if that's still excessive. I also do my best to change the water daily and spot clean the windows and fecal matter.

Here's the whole system (aside from the hidden reservoir for the misting system). Bells and whistles!


We have a few lives plants as well as false.

And here's one of our pair hanging out! The little guy is closer to the camera, which makes them look so similar in size. Camera magic.



1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species) Red Eyed Tree Frog
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" ) 24” x 18” x 36”
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? ) 2 frogs, fair but not extreme size difference
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate - there were more RETFs in the enclosure at the petshop
7----is there a new tank mate---- no
8----what is the typical humidity level - 60-80%
9----what temperature is maintained - 70-75 f at night 75-80 f daytime
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - tropical heating pad underneath (as needed), and red heating lamps (we alternate between a 75watt and 150 watt bulb as necessary, monitoring temp changes carefully)
11---describe the enclosure lighting - 12hr UV light cycle (partly for the live plants)
12---describe enclosure maintenance - water dish changed and wiped almost daily or when dirtied, spot cleaning daily
13---what kind of water is used - store bought spring water
14---material(s) used for substrate - coco substrate
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent describe how the enclosure was cleaned - last weekend, washed and wiped down everything we could, changed substrate
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric - two types of live tropical plant, various false, one tree mushroom
16---when is the last time the frog ate - probably last night? both were active and there are fewer crickets roaming
17---have you found poop lately - yes, daily
18---how often is the frog fed - as needed
19---what size feeder is given - medium crickets
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source - crickets
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed - roam free (going to try bowl feeding)
23---vitamins - what brand and how often - Repashy Superfoods Treefroog Calcium Plus - applied to new crickets, we bring in new crickets at least twice a week (will change this)
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time - unknown
26---approximate age of the frog - not sure?
27---how long have you owned the frog - ~2 months
28---who cared for the frog before you - petshop
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred - captive
30---how often the frog is handled -- rarely, no gloves
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - high, sort of. small apartment, just the two adults live there. We don't even watch much tv.
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) - frogs arrived together from the same petshop
32---has the frog been treated with any medication: No

[Lija]

Mmmm....hmmmmm.... How well are you taking constructive criticism?

The frogs are stunning and look healthy and eating, which is awesome!
You got all the right stuff, even mist King, which is great!
the tank is big and nice!

Now... Are you ready for some suggestions? Okay then.... How to put it nicely..... Well.... These are tree frogs, some people call them red eye leaf frogs.... They need trees ( branches), and lots of leaves. Pretty much they need forest! Your enclosure is not exactly looking like is a forest... See where I am getting at?
Short not sugar coated version - It is too open, it's very stressful for them, of course they don't move much, it's scary, it's better to pretend they are leaves, may be nobody would eat them this way.
If you really want to make it all pretty, it's not a rocket science, we can help you with that,but red eyes would love to have naturalistic vivarium! With the size of the tank like that ( and living in BC) you can do amazing stuff with that.
But as a bare minimum if you don't want to do anything major, just get more branches, silk plants or live plants. You can get magnitural planters holders, they stick to the wall, then you can put hanging plant in to fill the space. Just make sure you dip the plant in mild bleach solution, then rinse.

but you should really think about doing naturalistic tank, I'm sure you will love it and your frogs will be very happy