Red eyed Tree Frog setup questions

[J Teezy]

Thanks for the reply

One thing is that I plan to use fake plants for this project since this is my first time getting involved in frog keeping. Now with fake plants would the fogger be better over the mister since there will be no plants that need water from a mister?

Like you said the kit doesn't have enough decor to make a good home, I planned on adding more vines and fake plants to give the red eye plenty of climbing material.

This may sound stupid but I just want to make sure of things. You say use a feeder bowl. Are we talking just some kind of dish to put crickets in for the Red Eye. Will they not jump out of it? Is there a particular product you recommend or just use some ordinary little dish?

Since i'm not going to use live plants (though i would like to, i just dont think its a good idea for my first time frog adventure, and with being away 7-10 days at a time during the summer) does this change up substrate ideas for fake vs live plants. Also, with fake plants how oftern or how do you go about cleaning the substrate? Do you remove it all every so oftern and replace it with fresh substrate? I'm guessing just wiping off the fake plants with a water damp paper towel when necessary would be the proper way to clean the fake plants as well?

Thanks again for your reply. I'll be using this thread for all my questions in starting this froggy adventure.

[ViperJr]

I'm only using the ReptiFogger in my red-eye tank, and I've got tons of plants in there, all thriving and growing like there's no tomorrow, so it'll be good either way. The key is what kind of plants you use. The pothos, for example, is epiphytic and therefore it absorbs everything it needs through the leaves, and does not need to be planted in soil. I really suggest using a pothos, even if it is your first frog-experince. Like DonLisk (I think...) said in another thread, "If you can keep a frog alive, you can keep a pothos alive". They are pretty much indestructible, grow like crazy, easily support the weight of red-eyes, help maintain humidity and are just pure awesomeness. You can even just keep it in the pot if you want to (as long as you repot the plant with new, unfertalized soil, like Exo-Terra's Plantation soil) and just burrow the pot. You got nothing to lose and much to gain, so give it a try!

Your plant choice does not change the substrate choice, no. Regarding cleaning it, it's not that big of a deal. One or two red-eyes does not create much waste. Spot-clean when you see it (not uncommon to find it on the leaves), but other than that, not much to do. You could replace the substrate once in a while, but you don't have to worry about it so much. As long as the substrate does not sit in water for a long time (like if using coco husk without a drainage layer, and a mister), it's not going to get bad that quickly. Hard to say, but 1-2 times per year, perhaps, at most? Of course, if you actually see it going bad, just change it.
Cleaning plants, fake or not, is just a matter of wiping the leaves. However, there's not much to clean, other than the occasional poop.

When I say escape-proof feeder bowl, I mean something like an ordinary glass bowl, where glass is the key. Crickets (or dubias, which I think are much better feeders) can't climb on the smooth surface. They can't jump either, since they don't get enough friction to do so.


Lastly, if you decide on using live plants (which you should ), there are some things to remember. When purchasing the plants, they'll most certainly be planted in soil that's filled with fertilizers. It's not unusual for the leaves to contain some other nasty stuff as well, so you do want to make them frog-safe. This is how I do it:
Take the entire plant out of the pot and remove as much soil as you can. After that, rinse it through water thoroughly to get all the soil away. When that's done, rinse the plant (all the leaves etc.) itself thoroughly. When that's done, clean the pot (just water, no chemicals, since that's probably even worse for the frogs) and then repot the plant with clean soil. I recommend Exo-Terra's Plantation soil of Zoo meds' Eco-Earth.

Thanks again for your reply. I'll be using this thread for all my questions in starting this froggy adventure.

Please do! I'm happy to help when I can

[J Teezy]

thanks again for more information. Been reading and looking at stuff all day.

False bottoms

I've seen alot of these "false bottom" tanks. Are these mainly for tanks that have water pools and such. I really don't want to have to make one of these if I don't need to. I'm trying to keep this pretty simple. I understand that though red eyes like to spend their time perched out on plants and rocks or what not high up that they need a water pool still in case they choose to get in it? Is this correct. For this I assume that the little water bowl thing that comes with the exo terra rainforest kit will be sufficient enough, i just need to change that water out daily and make sure its not deep enough so the froggie will drown correct? (and what about how i mentioned that i go away for 7-10 days at a time, would the water pond be ok for that time if i can't get a friend to go change it?

I've seen some pretty sweet looking Do It Yourself waterfalls that some people have made especially the ones RudeReefer makes my method of building fake / faux rocks - Vivarium Forums but I'm not ready for something like that yet. I'd most likely go with one of the commercially made ones like this

I like the design of the waterfall you have in your pictures, what brand model is that?

so far my knowledge i've collected to get ready to start this is growing

1. Exo terra rainforest kit terrarium (most likely going to go with the 18x18x24 but if i can find a good price on the 36" tall one I'd like that one to give the froggy more exploration).

2. The kit comes with some decor but I need to add more for it so will get some more fake vines and fake jungle plants

3. The red eyes dont usually go on the substrate so provide vines or plants so that the frog can get down to the water pond and feeding bowl areas without having to walk on the substrate

4. Layer my substrate with several kinds of material (i read about some kidns of substrate sticking to the frogs =( so is there a certain type used on the top layer that doesnt stick to them if they should happen to get down in it

5. Fogger and mister are used to provide the humidity. I'll probably go the fogger route to start since it is pretty cheap for a zoo med repti fogger and i like the fog look. If i don't have a mister system would i still need to mist with a hand bottle if I don't use any live plants? though i will probably take your recommendation and toss a pothos in there to break up the total fake plant look, which i assume i would then need to mist the pothos every so often?

6. Lighting is something I still need to tackle. The exo terra kit comes with a light housing for i think its 25w bulbs and can hold two. What kind of bulbs should i use or do you recommend. I was thinking of putting a blue light in as one of the bulbs for a moonlighting effect at nightime for we too view the frog under (i plan on putting the terrarium in my home office where my computer and video games are where i spend most of my time when i'm at home. I would want some type of brighter light to keep on during the day i assume, then switch to the blue light in the evening then go no light at all when i go to sleep. Will the blue light keep the froggy awake? What are their sleep patterns like? Do they like to sleep in total darkness, daylight, etc? I live in Cincinnati, Ohio where the weather here can get really cold in the winter and really hot in the summer. In the winter i usually keep my thermostat around 69 F and in the summer around 73F. What's a good way to keep a steady temperature in the terrarium for a red eye?

7. Whats a standard feeding schedule for a red eye? How many crickets and how often. I read you should gut load the crickets first with a slice of apple before feeding them to the froggy as well.

[ViperJr]

A false bottom is just a fancy drainage-layer, which people use so the substrate won't stay waterlogged and get bad. I just use gravel instead (although LECA/hydraton is better). I do suggest that you use some sort of drainage-layer, since you do want to moist the substrate occasionally. A layer of LECA should do the trick.

They do occasional soak in water, which means do you want to provide them with a water bowl. It does not need to be anything fancy, could be anything from an nice looking reptile-brand water bowl or just a plastic box. Like you said, there is one in the rain forest kit, and it'll do just fine (and it looks good). Just make sure it's not super deep, but I don't think that's going to be a problem with that bowl. You could add a semi-large rock in it (or something like that), so it'll be even easier for the frog to get out of the water. They will almost exclusively just sit on the edges, letting the backside of their body slide in the water. They won't get completely soak (at least mine won't).
Now, I don't know exactly how big that bowl is, but it's possible that it won't last very long in 10 days. However, if you are planning on getting a waterfall, that's probably not going to be a problem since they hold much more water. And that leads me to the next subject.
I have an Namiba Terra waterfall, which I like a lot. The only problem is that it started to leak after a while (it was probably of poor quality from the beginning, just took it a while to actually break through), so I had to put a thick layer of silicone under it. Whatever brand you choose, be sure that it's completely non-leaking before putting it in place. It was a royal pain in the *** to take out my waterfall, since it was completely covered in plants by that time.
These waterfalls holds quite a lot of water. I think (but I'm not sure) that the Exo-terra medium is about the same size as mine, and mine holds approximately 1.5 liters (0.4 gallons). Considering the amount, and that it's a pump in there, it'll probably be fine if you go away for 10 days. Just change the water and clean it well before going away and coming home. You do want to do some regular water changing as well. I change the water within the waterfall 2 times a week, using a simple aquarium hose to siphon the water out, and then refill it. Once in a while, I do a thoroughly cleaning of it. If you keep a good consistent humidity level (which you need to do when dealing with these frogs), the frogs will soak less, since they get more water from the ambient humidity. This results in a less frequently used water bowl/waterfall, which keeps it clean longer. I personally think that a water bowl + a quite large waterfall is quite redundant, since they both serve the same purpose.


3. Precisely. You also want something to get in and out of the water easily, not just to get water bowl.

4. Like I said before, leaf litter is commonly used as a top substrate to keep the frogs clean and neat. It can be purchased at Josh's Frogs - Largest online herps feeders and reptile supplies store, which is one of the websites sponsors.

5. No, a fogger and/or a mister will replace the need to spray by hand. You spray by hand to increase the humidity, but that will be done by the fogger/mister. And no, the pothos don't really need to be hand misted either. Mine thrives with only the help of a ReptiFogger. And I can assure you, that's it much more now than in the pictures in my album, since they are old

6. Lightning is a common question when dealing with red-eyes, so I'll try to explain it to the best of my knowledge. First of all, being purely nocturnal, they do not need any kind of special light (UVA,UVB, full spectrum etc.), but they do need a light-source to create the day/night-cycle they need. This can be done in several ways. I recommend a low wattages CFL, which you'll want on a timer, for a consistent cycle. If you do want to give the plants an extra boost, you can use the Daylight, Full spectrum, 6500K CFL that Wal-marts sells, for example, the key being that they're full spectrum bulbs, and having a good colour temperature.
Red-eyes are, like I said, purely nocturnal, and for most people, they will only wake up when it's completely dark in their enclosure. Some say that a blue light-bulb do not disturb the frogs, but others do, so it's up to the specific frogs if they are disturb by it or not. However, the 25W Night-bulb from Exo-Terra provide nearly no light at all, so it won't help much when trying to look at them. They do however emits a decent amount of heat, being incandescence bulbs.
Keeping the temperature steady can be a bit tricky, but it's OK if it is slightly lower at winter (as long as it's within the required temperature-zone). It's also OK if it drops a few degrees as night (again, follow the requirements), since this is also what happens in their natural habitat. Just make sure it's not fluctuating too much (this applies to humidity levels as well). If you want a heating source, without adding additional light, there are two options. One being ceramic heat bulbs, the other being a side-mounted UTH (Under Tank Heater). Both needs to be on dimmers, in order to adjust the output. Ceramic bulbs is something I don't recommend for this, since they get extremely hot, even at low wattages. If you are planning on getting the Zoo med Thermo/hygrostat, it will take care of both the humidity and heating for you, keeping them at the levels you want.

7. I've never dealt with crickets, so I'm not sure (dubias being much higher in nutrition-value), but a few every day (per frog) should definitely be enough. Like I said before, it's often no problem to add extra feeders, and just let them get eaten the day after. They are not prone to obesity, unlike other tree frogs (like White's). There are a lot of threads with feeding questions, so if you do a quick search, you can probably find a more satisfying answer.


One thing I forgot to mention in my first post:
You do want to condition the water for all water features in the terrarium. There are several conditioners (many are for fish but they work just as well for amphibians) out there and all are good. I personally use Zoo med's.

Also, if you haven't already, check out the care article written by Kurt here on the forum!
http://www.frogforum.net/content/red...allidryas-122/

Lastly, there's no need to create an additional thread just to get attention to this one. Sometime it takes a little more time to get answers, so you have to be patience. It's only been a 7 hours since you last reply here.

[J Teezy]

so throwing some extra insects in before going out of town would be fine? Red eyes only eat what they need to eat and will not eat everything in site right away?

So you think just a nice size waterfall would be fine and no need for a water bowl then?

I've narrowed my choice of terrariums down to two. The Exo Terra 24"x18"x24" and the 24"x18"x36". I like the extra height on the X Tall model but i'm tossing around the matter that for 1 frog that size of a terrarium may be overkill and that the 24" may be a better suited size for 1 and maybe a 2nd a ways down the line. I can't seem to find the full kit offered in those sizes either but i found at petsolutions they at least include a rock 3d background with each one. $179 for the 24" and $249 for the 36" no tax free shipping. I'd really like a 3d background on not just the back but one of the sidewalls as well but that would most likely require me DIYing one and I'm not ready to tackle that adventure yet with a first time go at this. I'll probably cover one of the outsides of a side wall with some of that black poster stuff people use on fish tanks and attach to the outside of the side wall.

The more and more i look around at videos and pictures of peoples setups it makes we want to go with live plants >< . But i have some questions about this. I'm going to not only want a couple different ground plants going on but some vines and leafy type plants as well on the side walls. Now with the fake stuff i know you can just suction cup them to the glass, how would i go about doing live plants on the sidewalls since they obviously need to be potted. I want to try and cover alot of the sidewalls with vegetation of some sort. My thumb is not very green when it comes to plants so if i use live plants i need stuff that is very easy to care for (the less i have to worry about them the better). For plants on the substrate level do you jsut plant them in the substrate or put them in those mini pots and hide the pot in the substrate?

I'm thinking of using some of those exo terra jungle vines as well to create climbing avenues through the terrarium and give it even more of a 3D look.

Also do the red eye need complete darkness to sleep?

Thanks again for your info, I'm getting more and more excited about starting this the more i learn. Like i said before my biggest concern right now is what size terrarium to get. I dont want to buy the 36" and then find out its a little too big, or buy the 24" and wish i got the 36". Decisions decisions. I'm trying to sell some stuff on craigslist from old hobies of mine. Thinking if i can get some decent money out of it all, may just go with the 36" but I just keep thinking with 12 more inches for the frog to explore gives him even more room to hide out where he won't be visible alot. I understand tree frogs aren't the most lively frogs out there but i find them very attractive and would like to see him out and about from time to time and be able to show him off to visitors but I also want him to be comfortable and have a terrarium big enough for him to feel like its in its homeland! If the 24" is plenty size for 1-2 frogs i may just go with that plus $70 for 12 more inches of height seems like a lot which means that much more volume to fill with decor which is even more $. Trying to keep this project in a reasonable price range since it's my first time

[J Teezy]

food some nice videos on making a rock wall. I may try this and possibly build out some areas that i can stick a tiny potted plant into, and probably make it L shaped to cover a side wall as well. Would the materials he uses in this video be fine for a red eye?

Rock Wall background tutorial for reptile cage - YouTube

[ViperJr]

so throwing some extra insects in before going out of town would be fine? Red eyes only eat what they need to eat and will not eat everything in site right away?

Yes. In the long run, you might not want to add an extreme amount of feeders every time, but occasionally, I don't see the problem.

So you think just a nice size waterfall would be fine and no need for a water bowl then?

Indeed. A waterfall is just a bowl with a pump

I've narrowed my choice of terrariums down to two. The Exo Terra 24"x18"x24" and the 24"x18"x36". I like the extra height on the X Tall model but i'm tossing around the matter that for 1 frog that size of a terrarium may be overkill and that the 24" may be a better suited size for 1 and maybe a 2nd a ways down the line. I can't seem to find the full kit offered in those sizes either but i found at petsolutions they at least include a rock 3d background with each one. $179 for the 24" and $249 for the 36" no tax free shipping. I'd really like a 3d background on not just the back but one of the sidewalls as well but that would most likely require me DIYing one and I'm not ready to tackle that adventure yet with a first time go at this. I'll probably cover one of the outsides of a side wall with some of that black poster stuff people use on fish tanks and attach to the outside of the side wall.

First of all, the smaller size is not "better suited" for fewer frogs. They will not benefit from living in a smaller enclosure. However, the 24"x18"x24" is quite a nice size and it'll be a nice size even with 3, or even 4. I would say it's just a matter of how much you actually can spend. The larger (taller) is of course better, but the smaller is still good enough to make a proper home.

The more and more i look around at videos and pictures of peoples setups it makes we want to go with live plants >< . But i have some questions about this. I'm going to not only want a couple different ground plants going on but some vines and leafy type plants as well on the side walls. Now with the fake stuff i know you can just suction cup them to the glass, how would i go about doing live plants on the sidewalls since they obviously need to be potted. I want to try and cover alot of the sidewalls with vegetation of some sort. My thumb is not very green when it comes to plants so if i use live plants i need stuff that is very easy to care for (the less i have to worry about them the better). For plants on the substrate level do you jsut plant them in the substrate or put them in those mini pots and hide the pot in the substrate?

Ok, I feel like I should elaborate on pothos-plant a little more, since you do not seem to grasp it's true power. They are the all-round terrarium super-plant. They can be potted in substrate (soil, moss, coco husk, whatever), directly in water, or just without actual potting. They can absorb water through their leaves, and therefore can live and grow practically anywhere. I have two planted pothos, and one purely epiphytic pothos (not planted in any way), which both get their water solely from the ReptiFogger and the ambient humidity. On top of this, they are are extreme climbers, using sticky roots to secure itself to it's surroundings (be it the background, the substrate, other plants, the glass, vines, etc.) and the just continues to climb on. In addition to this, they grow like crazy. Like, crazy crazy. I've actually measured a grow-rate of 3 centimeters for a single stem over a 18 hour period. That was of course extreme, but I promise you it will grow a lot and fast. It's also very easy to just put it where you want it and wait for a week or two, since it'll fasten itself there. Then you can just point it at another direction.

Here's an example of how you can plant a pot and still get it higher up in the tank:
I silicone a cocofiber pot to one side of the tank. However, I almost never water it. It get's what it needs through the ambient humidity.


And here's a picture of what the roots looks like, which it'll use to secure themselves when climbing:



When talking about plants that actually needs to be planted, you can either do it in a pot and hide it, or directly in the substrate. I prefer to use a hidden pot, but it's pretty much up to you and how your enclosure looks like. Here's a picture of I did it:
Hidden pot:


And the same pot when the substrate is removed:


If you want to cover an entire wall with plants, I suggest creeping fig (Ficus pumila). The leaves themselves does not support an adult red-eye, but it can cover an entire wall like a wallpaper, which looks really nice. This could be planted in the substrate (or pot) below the wall and it'll most likely begin to climb its way up. I'm not sure if these can survive solely on a fogger though. I'm using them in my Theloderma corticale enclosure, which uses a misting system.

Also do the red eye need complete darkness to sleep?

I have answered this two times already:

They are extreme night-dwellers, and needs a very dark surrounding at night. Otherwise, they might not get up at all.


Red-eyes are, like I said, purely nocturnal, and for most people, they will only wake up when it's completely dark in their enclosure. Some say that a blue light-bulb do not disturb the frogs, but others do, so it's up to the specific frogs if they are disturb by it or not.

Thinking if i can get some decent money out of it all, may just go with the 36" but I just keep thinking with 12 more inches for the frog to explore gives him even more room to hide out where he won't be visible alot.

There is one nice aspect to keeping these frogs. The more hiding space you give it, the more you'll actually see it. When a lot of foliage, leaves, branches etc. are present, they will feel secure and hidden, therefore exploring more and being more visible. It might sound strange, but trying to hide them will almost always result in actually seeing them more.

food some nice videos on making a rock wall. I may try this and possibly build out some areas that i can stick a tiny potted plant into, and probably make it L shaped to cover a side wall as well. Would the materials he uses in this video be fine for a red eye?

Rock Wall background tutorial for reptile cage - YouTube

I don't know exactly what kind of materials he uses, but styrofoam is frog-safe, yes. When painting, acrylic can be used without being dangerous to the frogs (just make sure it's completely dried before putting the frogs in. Like, a week or two, minimum). When it comes to silicone, there's some kind that you definitely want to keep away from. From what I've read, "GE silicone II" is the most commonly used for this in the hobby, but please make sure to get that verified before using it. I might be wrong.


Lastly, let me show you how much pothos actually grows...

A little more than one year ago, long before any frogs actually lived there:


Over a year later, and it's even been through 2 dry periods (breeding attempts), killing some of the leaves. Also,m the dieffenbachia on the left was changed, because... well.