Twisted Frog?

[vivalabam]

I'm currently away from my frogs, my OH is looking after them. He messaged me the other day saying King hasn't been eating. (he wasn't eating loads before I left, I thought it was due to the winter) I said try and up the humidity and keep an eye on the temperature.

He messaged me again today and said my frog is twisted. I thought he must be making it up, so I made him take some photos. Turns out he was right. What has happened here?! He was always a grade B, so his lip stuck out a bit, but he always ate fine. I can't see the icon to post photos so I'll just give you the links!


http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...x/DSC01324.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...x/DSC01326.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...x/DSC01327.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...x/DSC01328.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...x/DSC01329.jpg

Looks as if his whole body is twisted to the side, he never used to be like that...

[GrifTheGreat]

He is not twisted. He is dangerously underweight. It would appear that your frog is starving to death. You need to seek treatment NOW! He needs avet trip. Also he may have to be force fed. How long has it been since he has eaten anything?

[vivalabam]

There is no vets near me that treat frogs... Not sure, he was eating when I left him 2 weeks ago, not a lot, but he was eating.

What's made him stop? Temps are 85 hot end and 80 in the cool end. I spray him twice a day, substrate is always damp.

[GrifTheGreat]

There is no vets near me that treat frogs... Not sure, he was eating when I left him 2 weeks ago, not a lot, but he was eating.

What's made him stop? Temps are 85 hot end and 80 in the cool end. I spray him twice a day, substrate is always damp.

85 is too hot for a baby. Babies and juviniles need day temps to be 80 to 82 and night time temps 75 to 79 humidity must stay 70 to 80% at all times. Do you de-chlorinate your frogs water and do you dust his food with calcium and a multivitamin? What have you been feeding him?

[vivalabam]

Well it's probably about 84, his thermostat is set at 84 and it's normally always on, so the temperature does stay above 80.

I do, and I do, I dust with D3 once week, calcium once a week and multivitamin once a week.

Crickets, it's the only thing he will eat, he has never been a good feeder because of his wonky mouth. He went through a stage where he ate fine for a few weeks, then it was back to not eating...

[IvoryReptiles]

Try earthworm pieces. He is starving to death and I do see some scoliosis (twisted spine) as well. Where did you get this frog? Just curious as to who is selling them and also to who is breeding them.

[vivalabam]

Try earthworm pieces. He is starving to death and I do see some scoliosis (twisted spine) as well. Where did you get this frog? Just curious as to who is selling them and also to who is breeding them.

He won't eat them, I've tried many times.

In the UK

[GrifTheGreat]

Try earthworm pieces. He is starving to death and I do see some scoliosis (twisted spine) as well. Where did you get this frog? Just curious as to who is selling them and also to who is breeding them.

Scoliosis! That's terrible. That poor frog.

[vivalabam]

Scoliosis! That's terrible. That poor frog.

What does that mean?

[GrifTheGreat]

What does that mean?

Scoliosis is a disease that causes a deformity in the spinal cord and is very painful as well as disabling. You're frog needs special treatment. Jessica may be able to advise you further. I do not know what to do for him. He still needs to eat so he needs to be force fed if he won't eat on his own. Try and find some Flukers Repta-Aid. I'm not sure what to do about the spinal deformity other than suggest a vet trip. You need to be very careful with him. Scoliosis will make him extremely prone to injury.

[mikesfrogs]

take a paperclip and open up his mouth and put small amounts of food in it. Something like a newborn pinky, earthworth piece depending on how big the frog is with calcium. Do it every 3 to 4 days. Then it will have enough strength to eat on its own after a few weeks.

[GrifTheGreat]

Yes, you need to force feed. I HIGHLY recommend Against using a pinky. They are much harder to digest, especially for a weakened frog. It is hard to tell exactly from the photos, but he seems small. Try force feeding earth worms, like Jessica said. They are much easier to swallow and digest; they will get nutrients absorbed into his body faster. In his weakened state, it would even be possible for your frog to choke to death on a pinky especially if he is small. (Gerneral rule of thumb is not to give a pinky to a frog less than 2 inches STV.)

Here is how to force feed: Take him out of the enclosure and set him on some damp paper towels (moistened with de-chlorinated water). It is easier to do if you have two people: one to hold the frog steady and the other to open his mouth and insert the food. Gently cup the frog from behind to keep him from backing away. The other person uses a credit card or shopper card to pry his mouth open. (I prefer the shopper cards because they are smaller but still firm.) Insert the card on one side of the mouth (it should be about where his stripe comes down his nose). Gently but firmly press down, increase the pressure until he opens. You should have the food item ready in your other hand and pressed against his "lips" so that as soon as he opens you can stick it in his mouth. You don't have to get the entire item in his mouth. Once food is partially swallowed, their instinct will usually take over and they will swallow it the rest of the way. He will try to swat away the card and the food. It will take several tries to get the food in his mouth. It is best to use worms. Dust the worms with a vitamin supplement. Worms are much easier to digest. Anytime an animal goes long periods without eating, their stomach shrinks, so soft smaller food items are better. Bigger items or items with shells, exoskeletons, or bones are harder to swallow and require much more energy to digest. Your frog does not have any extra energy. He needs nutrients immediately. If you can, pick up Flucker's Repta Aid. It is an emergency aid supplement that works very well. It comes with a tube syringe that you squirt the supplement into the frogs mouth. You can also use cat food. I know that sounds weird, but it is what the vet prescribed when my pac Grif wasn't eating. It was a high protein cat food used for emaciated animals or ones recovering from surgery. It is much easier for them to digest. You use a tube syringe, follow the same force feeding method, and squirt the food into the frog's mouth. It gets the vital nutrients in an easy to digest form. Just make sure you get one without chunks (they will clog up the syringe). I cannot emphasize enough how critical it is to take immediate action. Judging from the photos, your frog may not have long to live. I do not mean to sound harsh, but his life is in danger. Please keep us posted.

[Mentat]

Sorry for your little frog! Hope you can get it to eat and it survives this ordeal. Always recommend you observe and check every animal you purchase. Any external deformity (twisted lips) could eventually cause life challenges to it. Also, bad genes can also be linked to other more serious internal problems that could manifest down the road.

[vivalabam]

I can try and get my OH to force feed, but chances are he won't. So looks like froggy may die. I'm not going to be going back until Saturday.

I knew he was a grade B when I got him, my mum brought him for me as a present. He just seemed to get worse and worse shaped as he grew until he is like he is now. His lip has also got a lot worse which could be why he stopped eating?

[vivalabam]

At the moment he is changing the tank the frog is in. Before I came home I moved King over to a bigger tank, then he stopped eating, and hasn't started again. So I told my OH so set up his old tank again, we're going to leave him in there over night and try feeding tomorrow, see if that helps at all. New temperature is going to be set up at 82 degrees. If he still doesn't eat the OH said he will try force feeding for me!

[GrifTheGreat]

Moving tanks or any changes in their environment can be very stressful for them. Unfortunately, when pacmans get stressed then often stop eating and it is very difficult to get them to start again. Keep his temps up and steady (fluctuating temps are stressful too). Monitor him closely, but try not to handle him more than necessary or disturb him. You want to keep the stress level as low as possible. If you haven't already, cover three sides of the tank with some sort of background to reduce visual stress. At this point it is very unlikely that he will eat without help. You need to force feed!

Looking back through this thread, I see that you said you dust with calcium once a week...? Calcium should be used every other feeding. The multivitamin is used once a week, but never in the same feeding as the calcium because when used simultaneously the frog's body will not absorb either as well. Not getting enough calcium may have worsened the existing genetic problems (with his lip and spin). I am not qualified to tell if the damage is permanent or not. I have seen pacs with pretty bad MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease) reverse some of the effects (such as lip deformities) through proper diet and supplements. If vet treatment is not available, you still need to get food into him. Again, I am not an expert so I can't diagnose his spinal problem, but he is starving to death. I understand that you are not their to personally do it, but he needs nutrients immediately! The longer you wait, the lower his chances of survival.

[vivalabam]

He gets 3 supplements a week, so 3 out of 7 days he would get supplemented with 4 prey items.

[GrifTheGreat]

You're saying one feeding a week with calcium, one with D3, and one with multivitamin? Regardless, that is still only one dose of calcium per week. It should be three to four times a week. So you might dust with calcium on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays and dust with the multivitamin on Sundays or something like that. You can also get calcium that has D3 in it.

[vivalabam]

You told me last time that I wasn't supposed to be dusting as much. :s My D3 does have calcium in it.

[GrifTheGreat]

You told me last time that I wasn't supposed to be dusting as much. :s My D3 does have calcium in it.

Dust your frogs food withe calcium with D3 like you have every other feeding. He needs food food every other day to every day yo keep him going. Dust with the multivitamin once a week. I will go through this again. Since he appears to be a baby you can feed him evry day or every other day. I would dust with the calcium with D3 monday/wednesday/Friday. Dust with the multivitamin on Sunday. Tell your OH to be very careful. I'm sorry you have to go through this and aren't even there to care for your frog. Use the advice given.

I hope he recovers.