dubia experts

[7urb0]

how big of a colony do i need to sustain it as a daily food source? let say if i were to feed my pets 5-6 roaches a day. also how are they compare to crickets as far as turnaround rates. meaning which would i get more out of (by weight) in the same amount of time . can the experts here compile a list of pros and cons of breeding crickets vs dubias? i think that would help a lot to board members here as to which directions they would go.

crickets:
pros - hatch in large quantity, grows quick, good food source
cons - noisy, messy, smelly

dubias:
pros -?
cons - ?

[ViperJr]

Blaptica dubia
Pros:
Can't jump
Extremly poor climbers
Slow runners
Give birth to live children
Much more nutrition (better food source)
Do not cannibilze
Do not smell
Do not make any noise

Moreover, I can't think of a singel advantage of using crickets instead... They are just a ton of cons if you ask me.

[Niels D]

I've allways bred red runners, but I recently switched to dubia. At first I didn't get good results, but I kept them a little bit too cold. Now the colony is expanding fast. Just like Martin says: No smell, no noise!

[JeffreH]

Each adult female B. dubia is going to produce approximately 20 nymphs monthly in ideal conditions (conservatively). Depending on the size nymphs you feed, they do have a greater amount of meat weight per length than crickets, so you may be feeding less daily for the same quanitity of food.

It's always better to have too many than not enough - I like to figure for every one nymph you need to feed a day, you should be producing two that will be held back for future breeding and sustaining the colony. B. dubia take several months to reach adulthood (generally 4-6) and adult females can produce offspring for 12-18 months. Let's say you need to feed 10 nymphs a day to be on the safe side - I'd aim to try to produce 30 a day for a substantial colony. So you will want somewhere in the ballpark of 30-40 adult females along with a decent quanitity of mixed nymphs and feeders to keep things going for you as the adults die off and need replaced and as you feed off some of the nymphs.

It tears me apart when people make a B. dubia investment and don't get enough to being with, or don't give them enough time to become established. It's very hard to give an exact numerical value on the number of roaches you need to start with - if someone doesn't mind waiting several months for the colony to get established they might be able to get away with a starter colony of 250 mixed nymphs...while someone feeding immediately might need 500+. This is all assuming they are taking excellent care of the roaches as well. Keep in mind that this is an investment that will save loads of money in the long run; always buy more than you think you need, or be patient with them for just a few months longer and it will be well worth it. Having too many roaches is a blessing - they're easy to cull if you must or you can sell them and make a portion of your investment back!

The pros look to be covered pretty well, but I can add a couple of CONS:

-B. dubia aren't always the most active roach in the world. It can sometimes be hard to encourage animals who rely on movement for stimulus to eat them. Their notorious for "playing dead" and bunkering down when placed into an enclosure. Thats not to say you won't get some who cruise around constantly, but in general this can be expected.
-B. dubia will sometimes burrow slightly, particularly smaller nymphs in particulate substrates
-On rare occasions, the frass and a protein in the shed skins of B. dubia (and G. portentosa) can cause allergic reactions. Typically nothing severe, but when cleaning don't be surprised if you get watery eyes or begins sneezing repeatedly. I don't mind it all all, these guys are totally worth it.

Better choices for herps who need visual moving stimulus are Blatta lateralis (Turkistans/Red runners), Nauphoeta cinerea (Lobster roach) or Eublaberus posticus (Orange Heads). These all have their pros and cons to dubia - you might want to get a small starter batch of B. dubia to try with your animals prior to buying just to be sure they will readily take them. I have some stubborn Rhacodactylus geckos who refuse to believe they are a food source, so they primarily consume orange head nymphs and turks.

[7urb0]

A lot of useful information here. so it would be safe to say that the major hurdle here is that it takes time (several months) to establish a growing colony. now, is everything done in one container? unlike the crickets where each size are house desperately?

[JeffreH]

Yep - You just need one container. They do need heat to thrive and breed unlike crickets (although they too breed faster with heat) but you can keep any sized roaches together and they will continue to breed prolifically. B. dubia give live birth, and the adult females and males are readily distinguishable/sexually dimorphic.

In all honestly, I bred crickets for years and stopped as soon as I got my hands on roaches. Their just a hassle... they smell terrible, they make loads of noise, they jump, they need extra care in order to encourage breeding and well-being...their just a nuisance and take up twice the amount of space in rearing bins, feeding bins, breeding bins, incubation containers, yatta yatta.... Invest in roaches; Breed and be Freed! =) just be patient and let them become established. It is soooo worth the wait.

[badkelpie]

I recommend buying a few first to make sure your pets will eat them. My fire bellied toads don't eat them, neither do my sister's green tree frogs. They just don't move enough. I have had much better luck with lateralis roaches for the froggy types.

[k0cky]

Dear Doob experts:
I made my first purchase of these guys last night, and as I was looking at them this morning, i noticed 2 big completely white ones and a bunch of little white ones. The black ones are way more abundant, but it made me concerned because I've never seen/heard anyone on the net talking about them being anything but black/brown.

[ViperJr]

B Dubia are extremely white directly after a moult, and this is completely normal. They will become more and more dark over time, and then become white again when they moult again.

[k0cky]

HAHAHA that makes way more sense!!! I thought I had bought a batch of diseased feeders and had began shunning them, thinking of how I was going to get rid of them all safely. I'm so relieved I get to keep them. Thank you so much for the good news!

[ViperJr]

No worries! I know what you mean, I thought I had some awesome albino feeders first time I saw the whites one... :P